Opinions on Acquiring OOP Mosaics

[md655321]

I was wondering what you guys thought of making CD-R copies or downloading long OOP Mosaics which simply arent available on CD anywhere.

One of the programs I use to download (for sampling and because it can be faster than finding and ripping a CD to my HD) occasionally has Mosaics available. Its pretty damn hard to resist downloading sets like the Complete Andrew Hill Blue Note especially when I know I cant hear some of that stuff anywhere else.

Opinions?

[Guy Berger]

I was wondering what you guys thought of making CD-R copies or downloading long OOP Mosaics which simply arent available on CD anywhere.

One of the programs I use to download (for sampling and because it can be faster than finding and ripping a CD to my HD) occasionally has Mosaics available. Its pretty damn hard to resist downloading sets like the Complete Andrew Hill Blue Note especially when I know I cant hear some of that stuff anywhere else.

Opinions?

If the material is OOP, I think it's more or less legit to download.

Guy

[Rooster_Ties]

Personally, I don't think there's a lot wrong with downloading OOP music, especially if one tries to obtain legit copies over time, to replace the illegit downloads.

For instance, if I were in your shoes -- I'd probably go ahead and download the Andrew Hill Mosaic, but then I'd be sure I bought legit copies off eBay, or from other after-market sources, like half.com, or from trading on boards like this (and I mean trading legit copies). And I'd make it my goal to get legit copies of everything I could -- within about the next year's time. Most of the Hill set is (or was) available on CD domestically, and "Andrew!!!" is scheduled to be a Conn in October (2005). That would leave only about three albums' worth of material that couldn't be gotten legitimately. And over time, those three will be released as Conns too -- and I'd be to buy them as the came out.

Long story short, personally I don't have any problem with burning and downloading OOP music -- but I think one does have an obligation to try to obtain legit copies of the same material within a reasonable amount of time, at least of any of the material that's been released as individual CD's within the last 10 years.

Now, OOP stuff on LP that's NEVER been released on CD -- that's an entirely different story. That stuff, IMHO, is pretty much fair game, with the caveat that if it ever gets released on CD -- you should have the moral obligation to buy the CD issue, or else get rid of your burn of the LP. IMHO, it ain't cool to have burns of formerly OOP LP's, that have since been reissued on CD.

I'm sure others here will have a variety of opinions, and I'm not saying mine are "right". I thinks what I thinks, them there's what I think.

Edited May 11, 2005 by Rooster_Ties

[Guy Berger]

For instance, if I were in your shoes -- I'd probably go ahead and download the Andrew Hill Mosaic, but then I'd be sure I bought legit copies off eBay, or from other after-market sources, like half.com, or from trading on boards like this (and I mean trading legit copies).

I disagree about being obligated to buy a used copy on ebay if the thing is OOP. At that point the legit owner of the music isn't being compensated anymore -- all you're doing is possibly lining the pockets of the guy selling it used. You're better off downloading the thing and sending a check to the artist/label owner.

Guy

[wesbed]

I don't desire CD burns or downloads. I want the genuine article. Of the thousands of CDs I own I have less than 10 CDs that are not genuine legal copies. The few 'burn' CDs I own are copies of OOP material. One of my CD burns, for example, is a copy of Tina Brooks' TRUE BLUE which I copied before the RVG was released. Another is a CD copy of the Sam Rivers Mosaic which was copied after the Mosaic set went OOP.

However, I don't purchase legitimate copies of CDs to provide the artist or the label with funds. I don't purchase legitimate copies of CDs to make the fucking FBI happy. I purchase authentic copies of the CDs only because it's what 'I' desire. I like the original liner notes and packaging. I enjoy the thought of having the genuine article with the correct labels on the CD. I know the sound is correct. I know the packaging is correct. I purchase the real items for 'me.'

My point: do what works for you. If you desire/will accept a downloaded copy of certain music... download it. If a CD burn works for you... burn it. If you prefer a genuine copy... buy it. Do what you have to do. Get the music, listen to it, talk about it, let the music wash over your life, and enjoy the hell out of it. Get the music where you can.

I've purchased more music than I can listen to. I've purchased more music than anybody I know (anybody I know in my personal life, that is). If you obtain a few titles via downloads and burns don't be concerned. Man, I've got you covered.

Edited May 11, 2005 by wesbed

[Brad]

You must have been flippin out when you wrote that in the wee hours . But it's good advice. I wouldn't feel too bad about getting a burn of a cd, be it Mosaic or not, that's oop. The artist/the company have gotten their royalties and I don't believe you're cheating anybody.

[jazzydaddy]

Do you guys have any idea who you are talking to? Do you care?

I for one do not feel comfortable carrying on a discussion with

"md655321" who is not even willing to tell us where he lives.

Don Nania (from Schenectady, NY).

[Quincy]

Do you guys have any idea who you are talking to? Do you care?

I for one do not feel comfortable carrying on a discussion with

"md655321" who is not even willing to tell us where he lives.

I'm pretty sure he's a doctor who was born on 53-21-1965.

[sheldonm]

Do you guys have any idea who you are talking to?  Do you care?

  I for one do not feel comfortable carrying on a discussion with

"md655321" who is not even willing to tell us where he lives.

I'm pretty sure he's a doctor who was born on 53-21-1965.

...which month in 1965 would that be.....the 21st or the 53rd! ?

[sheldonm]

....I also think that the copyright law speaks for itself. I think it should be discussed by pm or email if discussed at all. Just my 2 cents!

Mark

[J.A.W.]

....I also think that the copyright law speaks for itself. I think it should be discussed by pm or email if discussed at all. Just my 2 cents!

Mark

Exactly.

Didn't Jim Alfredson recently ask not to discuss burning copies of copyright material publicly? I think this thread should be deleted.

[connoisseur series500]

I don't desire CD burns or downloads. I want the genuine article. Of the thousands of CDs I own I have less than 10 CDs that are not genuine legal copies. The few 'burn' CDs I own are copies of OOP material. One of my CD burns, for example, is a copy of Tina Brooks' TRUE BLUE which I copied before the RVG was released. Another is a CD copy of the Sam Rivers Mosaic which was copied after the Mosaic set went OOP.

However, I don't purchase legitimate copies of CDs to provide the artist or the label with funds. I don't purchase legitimate copies of CDs to make the fucking FBI happy. I purchase authentic copies of the CDs only because it's what 'I' desire. I like the original liner notes and packaging. I enjoy the thought of having the genuine article with the correct labels on the CD. I know the sound is correct. I know the packaging is correct. I purchase the real items for 'me.'

My point: do what works for you. If you desire/will accept a downloaded copy of certain music... download it. If a CD burn works for you... burn it. If you prefer a genuine copy... buy it. Do what you have to do. Get the music, listen to it, talk about it, let the music wash over your life, and enjoy the hell out of it. Get the music where you can.

I've purchased more music than I can listen to. I've purchased more music than anybody I know (anybody I know in my personal life, that is). If you obtain a few titles via downloads and burns don't be concerned. Man, I've got you covered.

This pretty much matches my own philosophy.

I don't keep burned cds. I have only original material of which perhaps 60% was purchased secondhand.

I don't buy original material to put money into the artist's pocket. That would be nice and altruistic, but I don't do it for that reason.

I do it, because I like the overall package and feelings of legitimacy.

Wes (at 10 burns) has more than I!

[md655321]

I for one do not feel comfortable carrying on a discussion with

"md655321" who is not even willing to tell us where he lives.

Is that better? I changed my profile.

You are a bit paranoid.

I can give you name and address if you like. (MD is my initials. 655321 is Alex's prison number in A Clockwork Orange.)

[wesbed]

I can give you name and address if you like.  (MD is my initials.  655321 is Alex's prison number in A Clockwork Orange.)

Prison number??

[Ron S]

You are a bit paranoid.

You're right--he is a bit paranoid.

BTW, I know you're moving to Philly just to stalk me.

[Tjazz]

One of the programs I use to download (for sampling and because it can be faster than finding and ripping a CD to my HD) occasionally has Mosaics available.  Its pretty damn hard to resist downloading sets like the Complete Andrew Hill Blue Note especially when I know I cant hear some of that stuff anywhere else.

Opinions?

Similar to making cdr's from the local library?

(local library has Andrew Hill, Jackie Mclean, Blue Mitchell, Hank Mobley, Curtis Fuller, Illinois Jacquet, Lennie Tristano, Lee Konitz & Warne Marsh, Nat King Cole, Woody Shaw,

Jack Teagarden, JJ Johnson, Chico Hamilton, Teddy Wilson, Charlie Ventura & Flip Phillips, etc )

Edited May 17, 2005 by Tjazz

[sjarrell]

I want to frequent your library. Where do YOU live?

[Brad]

Hans is right. This shouldn't be here, whether or not it's OOP. Maybe this thead should be removed.

BTW, Ron, yeah he's moving to Philly just to stalk you. That's his main ambition in life. He's got nothin' else to do

[Guy Berger]

....I also think that the copyright law speaks for itself.  I think it should be discussed by pm or email if discussed at all.  Just my 2 cents!

Mark

Well, I think the topic is interesting and relevant. Nobody's offering to burn anything for anyone else. (Though if Jim wants the references to OOP M*s**cs (rather than OOP music in general) deleted, that's understandable.)

Guy

Edited May 18, 2005 by Guy Berger

[Jim Alfredson]

So far this is just a discussion, so I see nothing wrong.

[Ron S]

BTW, Ron, yeah he's moving to Philly just to stalk you.  That's his main ambition in life.  He's got nothin' else to do

Well why else would anyone move to Philly???

(Just kidding--I'm actually a big Philly booster and think there are many, many great things about it that, unfortunately, are not well known to the rest of the world. )

[jazzydaddy]

BTW, Ron, yeah he's moving to Philly just to stalk you.  That's his main ambition in life.  He's got nothin' else to do

Well why else would anyone move to Philly???

(Just kidding--I'm actually a big Philly booster and think there are many, many great things about it that, unfortunately, are not well known to the rest of the world. )

Any more significant than being the birthplace of Benny Golson

and McCoy Tyner and the childhood home of John Coltrane??????

That's distinction enough in my book!!!!

BTW, I love those cheesesteaks.

Don

[jazzydaddy]

Oh Ya, I neglected to mention that Philly was also the

birthplace of Rocky Balboa too!

Don

[Brad]

Ron,

They'd at least want to see the great sports "teams" you guys have

[Ron S]

Ron,

They'd at least want to see the great sports "teams" you guys have

Let's see--how many Conference Championship games have the Giants or the Jets been in the last 4 years?