Crouch on Rollins

[AllenLowe]

by the way, right-on, Larry - last year I was watching some jazz documentary on television, and there was a brief but incredible clip of Sonny in the '60s playing Three Little Words with a trio, clearly, of course, related to that Impulse release - I never found out where that came from but, short as it was, it was a real symbol of what we've missed all thses years of Sonny wandering n the rhythm section desert -

[Michael Fitzgerald]

Well, surely whether or not something was awarded a gold record is appropriate to confirm with RIAA since they are the ones who give out the gold/platinum awards.

You may well have sold a billion copies but if RIAA doesn't give you a gold record then you can't claim that you got a gold record for it.

When Watrous says MFT went gold - what is his proof if not RIAA?

Mike

[Chuck Nessa]

My point is the RIAA gold record status is of no real value when comparing record sales. My Favorite Things may have sold twice as many copies as the others but we'll never know.

[Michael Fitzgerald]

Understood. But even if it has, I don't think it's appropriate to say it went "gold".

It is interesting to consider Chris's point regarding titles. One would think that would be some incentive in keeping albums as albums, rather than messing around with them when reissuing (a la the Prestige things which have seventeen titles depending on which issue - 10", first 12", reissue 12", New Jazz 12", Prestige 2-fer, complete boxed set, etc.).

Mike

[MartyJazz]

by the way, right-on, Larry - last year I was watching some jazz documentary on television, and there was a brief but incredible clip of Sonny in the '60s playing Three Little Words with a trio, clearly, of course, related to that Impulse release - I never found out where that came from but, short as it was, it was a real symbol of what we've missed all thses years of Sonny wandering n the rhythm section desert -

Yeah, Allen!

That clip was on the Blue Note story documentary, I believe. Flipped me out as soon as I saw it. Would love to have the entire video of that. In fact, my brother was watching it at the same time at his home and he immediately called me to ask "Did you see that?" We're both heavily into the Rollins of the '50s and '60s.

Edited May 3, 2005 by MartyJazz

[Michael Fitzgerald]

Was this the Halloween 1965 gig in Copenhagen that has been issued on Magnetic CD? Reportedly from a TV broadcast - band is the late NHOP and Alan Dawson.

Mike

[MartyJazz]

Was this the Halloween 1965 gig in Copenhagen that has been issued on Magnetic CD? Reportedly from a TV broadcast - band is the late NHOP and Alan Dawson.

Mike

If so, I'd love a copy of that CD if not the video. Never saw or heard that particular CD. (I do have a private tape of that trio from Munich in '65 which is excellent).

Edited May 3, 2005 by MartyJazz

[BruceH]

IMO, one could have a supremely respectable jazz collection and not have anything by Branford.

That's good news for me.

[relyles]

I have a copy of that with the date listed as Nov. 1, although I have also seen it listed as Oct. 30. My copy also supposedly comes from a radio broadcast.

[medjuck]

I don't believe that "Alfie" was any more of a "hit" than a number of other Rollins LP's;

I do. I suspect people bought it who thought they'd hear the Burt Bacharch song.

[MartyJazz]

I don't believe that "Alfie" was any more of a "hit" than a number of other Rollins LP's;

I do. I suspect people bought it who thought they'd hear the Burt Bacharch song.

Interesting sidenote about this. I'm convinced that Lewis Porter who made the original ALFIE film, the one that catapulted Michael Caine to stardom, was either compelled to tamper with the soundtrack during the ending of the film or that he agreed to do so for commercial reasons. Here's my "evidence". Any of you who have seen the film in the U.S., whether it was during the initial run, or subsequently on TV, or now on DVD, should realize that Rollins is heard during the entire film, except (somewhat inexplicably) during the closing credits, when you hear Cher sing Bachrach's song "Alfie" ("What's it all about", etc., etc.). Well, being both a Rollins nut and a Michael Caine fan, I picked up a few years ago a VHS commercial copy of the film. Lo and behold, instead of Cher's warbling at the end, the viewer with receptive ears is treated to the sounds of Rollins wailing, wailing I say, during the closing credits. To me it was an unexpected thrill to make this discovery. Subsequently when I borrowed a DVD copy from the local library, I was saddened to see that Rollins' liberation was short-lived, i.e, Cher is there at the end. Reason enough to treasure the VHS copy, I say.

[Michael Fitzgerald]

Lewis Gilbert (film director), not Lewis Porter (Coltrane biographer).

I am told that the closing credits of the film were different depending on location, etc. So it wasn't always Cher - only in the USA. So, I'm not surprised by the idea of more Rollins.

Mike

[marcello]

Is the vocalist not Dionne Warwick?

[Michael Fitzgerald]

No, the Warwick version came out after the film (almost a year later). The original Bacharach version was with Cilla Black. From the Bacharach boxed set notes: "George Martin, who produced the session, claims the British filmmakers turned down the song (!) for inclusion on the movie soundtrack."

BTW, a little websearch brings up the unconfirmed allegation that "the UK print of Alfie has jazz music over the closing credits" with no Cher.

Mike

[Chuck Nessa]

FWIW, as a record retailer (at the time), Alfie sold many more copies than the other recent records 'cause Rollins fans loved his playing on the date. It seemed like the "Prestige Sonny" returned to form. Some complained about the "cheezy" Nelson arrangements, but everybody loved Sonny's "swagger".

I'd guess Alfie sold somewhere around 3 times more than the other 2 Impusles dates - at the time.

[MartyJazz]

Lewis Gilbert (film director), not Lewis Porter (Coltrane biographer).

I am told that the closing credits of the film were different depending on location, etc. So it wasn't always Cher - only in the USA. So, I'm not surprised by the idea of more Rollins.

Mike

Thanks, I did mean Lewis Gilbert. Don't know why I wrote Porter....I've yet to read his Trane bio.

[JSngry]

Well, being both a Rollins nut and a Michael Caine fan, I picked up a few years ago a VHS commercial copy of the film. Lo and behold, instead of Cher's warbling at the end, the viewer with receptive ears is treated to the sounds of Rollins wailing, wailing I say, during the closing credits. To me it was an unexpected thrill to make this discovery.

Is your VHS copy the one released as part of the "Joan Collins Romance Library" or something like that? (seriously) I ask because I picked that one up in a clearance bin just to have for archival purposes, but I've never actually watched it (I know...).

But if it's got Sonny playing over the ending credits instead of Cher (whose version I always found jarring, both on its own and in the context of the film), it might be time to schedule a viewing,,,

[JSngry]

FWIW, as a record retailer (at the time), Alfie sold many more copies than the other recent records 'cause Rollins fans loved his playing on the date. It seemed like the "Prestige Sonny" returned to form.

Now that's funny - Sonny's playing on that side is about as un-Prestige like as you can imagine! Maybe not "in spirit" (and maybe that's what they were responding to), but in terms of his actual playing, he's playing shit on there that he wasn't even hinting at in the 50s.

[Chuck Nessa]

I think you (and your edit) missed the point.

[JSngry]

Yeah, it sold more. Because of the swagger. Instead of the (seemingly) "lost in space" quality of many of of the previous RCA sides. I got that.

But that ain't no Prestige-type swagger, not saxophinistically. Not even slightly. Thus the irony.

[Chuck Nessa]

Yeah, it sold more. Because of the swagger. Instead of the (seemingly) "lost in space" quality of many of of the previous RCA sides. I got that.

But that ain't no Prestige-type swagger, not saxophinistically. Not even slightly. Thus the irony.

I was speaking of the "fan perception".

[JSngry]

As was I!

[John Tapscott]

I'm going to see Sonny at Massey Hall in Toronto on June 24. Man, I hope he has a good night. My ticket cost $75. I've never seen Sonny in concert and figured I'd better take the opportunity while I still can. I must admit to being a bit worried about Sonny's reputation for inconsistent performances, though. From a paying fan's point of view, there's a certain advantage to a Sonny Stitt auto-pilot type of performance. It may not always be great, but it will always be at least decent, and you feel you've got your money's worth. I gather that with Rollins it could be either great or a real drag. I'll be happy if it's least part way in-between.

[Chuck Nessa]

Mr Rollins in "real drag" mode is better than Sonny Stitt.

[Dmitry]

Mr Rollins in "real drag" mode is better than Sonny Stitt.

Naah.