Archie Shepp - Coral Rock (1970)

[jasonguthartz]

re: Prestige 10066 (LP)

The record sleeve says it's Joseph Jarman on trumpet, but methinks this might be an error.

This discography says it's Lester Bowie:

http://www.jazzdisco.org/prestige/1969-dis/c/#700723

  Quote

Archie Shepp Nonet

Alan Shorter (flh) Lester Bowie (tp) Clifford Thornton (vtb) Archie Shepp (ts, p) Bobby Few (p) Bob Reid (b) Ali Muhammad (d) Djibrill (cga) Ostaine Blue Warner (per)

Paris, France, July 23, 1970

Can anyone confirm?

Edited May 2, 2005 by jasonguthartz

[brownie]

The back sleeve of the original 'America' vinyl identifies Al Shorter on 'flugal horn' and Joseph Jarman on trumpet. They have photos of the players. No photo of Jarman but one of Lester Bowie playing trumpet.

Typical of America's shoddy productions....

Most of the players on 'Coral Rock' - including Al Shorter (again on flugal horn) and Lester Bowie (on trumpet) also appear on Archie Shepp's 'Pitchin Can', another America LP release!

[bertrand]

At least Alan Shorter is not listed as playing bugle...

Is the Pitchin' Can LP the same as Black Gipsy? There is a tune on Black Gipsy by Cal Massey called 'Pitchin' Can'.

Bertrand.

[Brandon Burke]

  bertrand said:

At least Alan Shorter is not listed as playing bugle...

Is the Pitchin' Can LP the same as Black Gipsy? There is a tune on Black Gipsy by Cal Massey called 'Pitchin' Can'.

Bertrand.

Interesting, as I was wondering why Pitchin' Can was not included among the Free Amercia reissues. Perhaps your question answers that...

[Chuck Nessa]

Not the same.

[Brandon Burke]

Come to think of it, that wouldn't have necessarily answered my question anyway since they left out Coral Rock as well. But at least that one's avaiable as a cheap Prestige LP.

Edited May 2, 2005 by Brandon Burke

[bertrand]

Chuck,

I assume the composition entitled 'Pitchin' Can' is also on the LP of that name. Is it a different version than the one on Black Gipsy? Are there any other Massey tunes on the Pitchin' Can LP?

Thanks,

Bertrand.

[Bill Fenohr]

Bertrand,

The tune Pitchin'Can on the cd release is a add on from the America album of the same name.

It was not on the original Black Gypsy issue or on the Prestige reissue.

[Chuck Nessa]

IIRC, the lp called Pitchin' Can is comprised of one long performance of something other than the Cal Massey tune called Pitchin' Can.

[brownie]

Track list for the 'Pitchin' Can' LP:

side 1

- UHURU (Dawn of Freedom) Part I (Archie Shepp) 17:00

(the side 1 label lists the following players: Archie Shepp on tenor, Bobby Few on piano, Bob Reid on bass, Clifford Thornton on valve trombone, Mohamed Ali on drums, Al Shorter on flugal horn, Djibrill on conga drums, Ostaine Blue Warner on percussions, Lester Bowie on trumpet)

side 2

- UHURU (Dawn of Freedom) Part II (Archie Shepp) 9:10

- Pitchin' Can (Cal Massey) 7:50

(the side 2 label lists the following players - that's for the Cal Massey track - Archie Shepp on soprano, Sonny Murray on drums, Clifford Thornton on trumpet, Julio Finn on harmonica, Noah Howard on alto, Leroy Jenkins on violin, Dave Burrell on piano and Earl Freeman on bass). Chicago Beau, the blues singer who appears on the Cal Massey track is not listed on the label but is listed on the backsleeve notes.

[Chuck Nessa]

So much for my memory.

[jasonguthartz]

  brownie said:

Track list for the 'Pitchin' Can' LP:

Thanks, brownie. I'm assembling a Clifford Thornton discography, so the details on "Pitchin' Can" are extremely helpful.

While we're on the subject, is there any recording date/location info on the "Pitchin' Can" LP? I have a 9-Nov-1969 recording date for the "Black Gypsy" record -- but I guess that may not apply to the "Pitchin' Can" track added to the "Black Gypsy" reissue, right?

Jason

[jasonguthartz]

  brownie said:

The back sleeve of the original 'America' vinyl identifies Al Shorter on 'flugal horn' and Joseph Jarman on trumpet. They have photos of the players. No photo of Jarman but one of Lester Bowie playing trumpet.

Typical of America's shoddy productions....

Thanks.

[clifford_thornton]

Yes, it's Bowie. The Coral Rock album and the "Uhuru" circle-jerk were recorded at the same session; the tune "Pitchin' Can" was recorded with the rest of Black Gypsy. IMO, "Uhuru" might be the reason that session wasn't included in the America CD reissues - it's pretty mindless as free jazz blowing sessions go, though the Shorter tune "Coral Rock" is one of his best...

[brownie]

  jasonguthartz said:

  brownie said:

Track list for the 'Pitchin' Can' LP:

Thanks, brownie. I'm assembling a Clifford Thornton discography, so the details on "Pitchin' Can" are extremely helpful.

While we're on the subject, is there any recording date/location info on the "Pitchin' Can" LP? I have a 9-Nov-1969 recording date for the "Black Gypsy" record -- but I guess that may not apply to the "Pitchin' Can" track added to the "Black Gypsy" reissue, right?

Jason

Our Clifford Thornton already replied accurately.

Neither 'Coral Rock' nor 'Pitchin' Can' America LPs have record dates listed. Same goes for the other Shepp America albums 'Black Gipsy' and 'Archie Shepp & Philly Joe Jones'.

The Tom Lord discography lists the 'Pitchin' Can' track as having been recorded on November 9, 1969. The other tracks from the 'Coral Rock' and 'Pitchin' Can' Americas are listed as having been recorded on July 23, 1970.

[king ubu]

Gee Mosaic should do a Select with these Shepp Americas!

So what's the correct line-up of "Coral Rock" anyway?

Shepp (ts) - (my guess: ts on side A only, p on side B)

Lester Bowie (t)

Alan Shorter (flh)

Clifford Thornton (vtb)

Bobby Few (p - prob. on side A only?)

Bob Reid (b)

? (b) (arco playing on side A?)

Muhammad Ali (d)

Djibril (cga)

Ostaine Blue Warner (perc)

Anyone can add/correct?

[brownie]

Ubu, your guess about the piano playing on 'Coral Rock' sounds OK to me.

[clifford_thornton]

Yeah, Ubu is right. I like Shepp's piano playing, especially on that version of "I Should Care."

Reid is playing arco bass on side A. The plodding bottom end is a combination of piano, low valve trombone and bass drum - typical of Alan Shorter's composition and arrangements.

[king ubu]

  On 3/17/2010 at 3:48 PM, clifford_thornton said:

Yeah, Ubu is right. I like Shepp's piano playing, especially on that version of "I Should Care."

Reid is playing arco bass on side A. The plodding bottom end is a combination of piano, low valve trombone and bass drum - typical of Alan Shorter's composition and arrangements.

Oh, that's interesting! I played this late at night on speakers, so I was listening at a low volume and really had a hard time figuring out the instruments. I could hear the two trumpets (there are some nice echoing passages), and I could hear the valve trombone as well, but I'd not have guessed that Few was thumping out these bass lines with the helps of the bass drum - very cool!

Shepp's piano on "I Should Care" is indeed mighty enjoyable!