Spyro Gyra

[7/4]

also yeah i guess spyro gyra is like listening to jeff lorber and you know who used to be in lorber's band-right?

Kenny Gee!

[Jazz Kat]

When it comes down to it, yes, Spyro Gyra IS a smooth jazz band. They - along with Dave Grusin, Bob James, Grover Washington, Chuck Mangione, and folks like that - invented the genre. They're not a funk band, they're not a Latin band, they're not a jazz band, they're not a rock band, they're not a fusion band. They take bits of each of those and put it together in a largely unthreatening "easier listening" style. Does it take talent to do this well? Sure. The guys who play in Spyro Gyra have some chops - not necessarily a lot of taste, but they can get around on their instruments, they can handle the chord changes. Compositionally, there's a lot of formulaic stuff happening. Lots of vamp-oriented stuff. It's about the "groove" more than about melodic, harmonic, or rhythmic development. The tunes are "songs" more than they are "compositions" if we can understand that distinction.

Now, if we can just accept that there is such a thing as a "good smooth jazz band", then we might be able to say that Spyro Gyra is a good smooth jazz band.

Mike

First of all Chuck Mangione is NOT smooth jazz! And either is Spyro Gyra! Are they most responisble for it, yes! But then again, so is Miles Davis. Beckenstein said himself, you don't call his band a smooth jazz band. If they're playing latin, IT IS a latin band, if they're playing blues, they're a blues band. No Spyro Gyra isn't a jazz band. That's the most outrageous thing I ever heard.

And no Led Zeppelin is NOT HEAVY METAL!!!!!!!!!! It's pointless to try and proove it to you. Same deal, they were responsible for it, but did not play it. Granted, some of their live stuff comes really close to heavy metal. Led Zeppelin's greatest influence was the blues. They were a Heavy Blues band! Got it!

And no, listening to Spyro Gyra is not like listening to Jeff Lorber! And once and for all, Spyro Gyra is not a SMOOTH JAZZ BAND!!! And the musicians in the band are some of the most talented players in the industry. You go hear Scott Ambush's bass solo, and tell me he's not the slightest bit talented. Absolutely pitiful!

[7/4]

First of all Chuck Mangione is NOT smooth jazz!

[Jazz Kat]

Whatever. Bask in your own ignorance. No point in playing piano to a cow...

[sidewinder]

Still get nightmare flashbacks from being bombarded by this sort of thing (copied from a 1970s jazz mag)

[Michael Fitzgerald]

No, not all Chuck Mangione is smooth jazz. But what he was doing in 1977 and later is quite different from what he was doing in 1972.

If you think that Spyro Gyra can actually BE a blues band or a Latin band, then you don't know what a blues band or a Latin band actually sounds like.

I wonder if you have even heard any of the first five Jeff Lorber albums. Lorber and Spyro Gyra in that period were mining the same lode, almost exactly. The same cannot be said for Miles Davis.

I'm not taking a position on Led Zeppelin and heavy metal, but a "heavy blues band" doesn't work. By the third album, there was only one blues tune. I consider them a bit more sui generis. Rather expectedly, a heavy blues band is a band that plays blues and does it in a "heavy" style - sure LZ could do that, but why don't we call them a "folk band" since they did repertoire borrowed from Joan Baez and Bert Jansch? But that was only part of them. Why don't we call them a funk band since they did that James Brown bit? Because it's not an accurate description of all they did.

Jay Beckenstein might not want his band associated with bad smooth jazz stuff, but sure, why wouldn't he want to imply that his band is special, not the same as all those folks? It's a good marketing policy decision, but it's not based in any kind of fact.

Go on and SHOUT YOUR INSISTENCE!!! BUT YOUR SHOUTING IT DOESN'T MAKE IT SO!!!!!

Mike

[Guest Chaney]

When was the term 'smooth jazz' coined? Maybe Spyro Gyra was called something other than smooth jazz back in its time. Adult contemporary?

smooth jazz

Wikipedia

Smooth jazz is a sometimes controversial term, denoting a form of music.

Some jazz lovers do not consider "Smooth Jazz" a form of jazz, seeing it as a misleading marketing term that represents an attempt to hijack the prestige of the term "jazz" in order to sell what is really a form of muzak.

Others contend that "Smooth Jazz" can indeed be a viable subgenre, arguing that it is narrowminded to try to turn jazz into a kind of museum exhibit, and point out the continuing cross-pollination that has occurred between jazz and R&B over the course of a century. Furthermore, they point out that the music of such widely respected musicians as Pat Metheny, David Sanborn, Marcus Miller and others are often classified as "smooth jazz," and that many musicians are capable of perfoming well in multiple styles.

Smooth jazz developed in part from jazz fusion, and tends to deemphasize improvisation. Creed Taylor's CTI Records was especially important in the form's development in the mid-1970s. Earlier, Wes Montgomery made a number of instrumental recordings of familiar pop songs which were aimed as much at pop audiences as at jazz fans; these records are often cited as important early smooth jazz.

A popular recent development is urban jazz, which incorporates the aspects of hip-hop. This style is aimed at audiences who would normally listen to urban contemporary radio stations that play a mix of hip-hop and R&B. Among the musicians who frequently perform urban jazz are Dave Koz, Boney James, Paul Jackson Jr., and former NBA player-turned-bassist Wayman Tisdale.

The construction of Smooth jazz as a radio format has its roots in the Beautiful music format, generally played in 15-minute sets (instrumentals bookending one or two vocal songs per set). In essence, today's Smooth jazz stations are no different than the Beautiful music stations of the 1960s through the 1980s.

List of smooth jazz performers:

Saxophonists

Boney James

Candy Dulfer

Dave Koz

David Sanborn

Eric Marienthal

Euge Groove

Everette Harp

Gerald Albright

Grover Washington Jr.

Jeff Kashiwa

Kenny G

Kim Waters

Kirk Whalum

Marion Meadows

Mike Phillips

Mindi Abair

Najee

Nelson Rangell

Pamela Williams

Paul Taylor

Richard Elliot

Steve Cole

Walter Beasley

Warren Hill

Guitarists

Blake Aaron

Brian Hughes

Chieli Minucci

Chris Camozzi

Doc Powell

Earl Klugh

George Benson

Jeff Golub

Joyce Cooling

Ken Navarro

Larry Carlton

Lee Ritenour

Norman Brown

Paul Jackson Jr.

Pat Metheny

Patrick Yandall

Peter White

Russ Freeman

Steve Oliver

Bassists

Brian Bromberg

Gerald Veasley

Marcus Miller

Wayman Tisdale

Trumpeters / Flugelhornists

Chris Botti

Chuck Mangione

Greg Adams

Rick Braun

Keyboardists

Bob James

Brian Culbertson

David Benoit

Gregg Karukas

Jeff Lorber

Joe McBride

Joe Sample

Keiko Matsui

Paul Hardcastle

Ramsey Lewis

Groups

Acoustic Alchemy

Avenue Blue

BWB

Down to the Bone

Fourplay

Fattburger

Pieces of a Dream

Sade

Special EFX

Spyro Gyra

Streetwize

The Braxton Brothers

The Jazzmasters

The Rippingtons

Urban Knights

[Michael Fitzgerald]

Gotta love that "ignorance" shot. Yeah - pot, kettle, black.

Mike

[7/4]

Whatever. Bask in your own ignorance. No point in playing piano to a cow...

Moo.

[Sundog]

I was listening to Clifford Brown performing I Don't Stand a Ghost of a Chance With You on my way to work this morning. Now that's some "smooth" jazz!

Edited April 29, 2005 by Sundog

[Big Al]

Are [spyro Gyra] most responisble for [smooth jazz], yes! But then again, so is Miles Davis.

That is the funniest thing I've read in years. Also probably the most ignorant, outside of the politics forum. That's like saying the Beatles are responsible for the Knack because the Knack aped some of the same stuff the Beatles did, only not nearly as well.

Dig, you like a band that others don't. Deal with it.

When I was in high school (85-88), all the band kids who wanted to be jazz fans thought that Spyro Gyra was the hippest band on the planet. I guess it's as true today as it was back then.

But then I'm just another cow who won't listen to reason. Hey 7/4, moooove over, that looks like some good grass there!!!!

[Uncle Skid]

All academic definitions aside, as far as I'm concerned, if it's played on the Weather Channel, it's "smooth" jazz. Period.

Weather.com - Monthly Playlists

[7/4]

All academic definitions aside, as far as I'm concerned, if it's played on the Weather Channel, it's "smooth" jazz. Period.

Weather.com - Monthly Playlists

Pink Floyd - Shine on You Crazy Diamond - Wish You Were Here

really now...

[Michael Fitzgerald]

I really don't think the problem is "you like a band that others don't" - not at all. The problem is that there is great reluctance to call a spade a spade. Maybe it's a fear to accept that "you like a band that is a smooth jazz band".

Well, that's *one* of the problems.

Mike

[7/4]

But then I'm just another cow who won't listen to reason. Hey 7/4, moooove over, that looks like some good grass there!!!!

[robviti]

First of all Chuck Mangione is NOT smooth jazz! And either is Spyro Gyra!...And no Led Zeppelin is NOT HEAVY METAL!!!!!!!!!!...And no, listening to Spyro Gyra is not like listening to Jeff Lorber! And once and for all, Spyro Gyra is not a SMOOTH JAZZ BAND!!!

[Guest Chaney]

I listened to Bob James and that whole crew back in the '70s. Back then, I probably believed I was listeining to jazz, just as I once ignorantly exclaimed to a friend, after listening to and liking Andrew Lloyd Weber's Evita: WOW, I like opera!

I can admit that and not get all bent out of shape if others want to kid me for it.

[Uncle Skid]

really now...

Ok, I guess I'll have to take that one back!

Seriously, I hope Mr. Kat doesn't get too upset about all of this. From my perspective (as someone who is still very much a jazz "newbie", even though I'm probably more than 2X his age), I think it's great that a young person has such a keen interest in jazz.

[marcello]

Still get nightmare flashbacks from being bombarded by this sort of thing (copied from a 1970s jazz mag)

Jazz Kat.......wow, take a deep breath, kid!

Re: the photo:

The guy to the far left is Chet Catallo, form Rochester, who was fired from the band for being a general pain in the ass and not a team player. Fame went to his head. Nice player.

The guy at the bottom is Beckenstein and the one in the rear with the '70's shirt is Tom Schuman, also from Rochester I believe. He played in a fried of mine's band here for a while.

Chippewea (?) Street is very long but I would bet you a Rosario Giulani cd that they did not grow up there.

Life is long,my friend, and you can't argue your way through it. Stick around and listen/read or you end up at a place near where Chippewa Street starts in Buffalo. The Erie County Correction Center! There you get to argue 24/7.

My offer to send you some music in the pm I sent you stands. I'll even through in some Rosario Giuliani, who will make you forget ( or appreciate in a different light) Beckenstein.

[jazzbo]

Hey, Al I personally also feel that Miles Davis was an influence, a considerable one, on smooth jazz. . . that eighties band prefigured a lot of stuff by Najee and others . . well there you go, it's my theory.

Edited April 29, 2005 by jazzbo

[Chuck Nessa]

well there you go, it's my theory.

That's why they keep you away from the big boys.

[Michael Fitzgerald]

By the time Miles Davis came back in 1980, the smooth jazz stuff was already firmly in place. Think 1974 or earlier for Bob James, Earl Klugh, Grover Washington, Jr. and then 1976-1977 for Mangione's change of band, and Stuff, Grusin, Lorber, Spyro Gyra. During that period, Miles was very much absent.

I don't doubt that Miles was significant to smooth jazz players, but he didn't pioneer it like he did with other styles. When he did come back he had his own take on things, as could have been expected.

Mike

[Jim R]

JK,

In 20 years (I know it's difficult for you to think that far ahead), you'll look back on this and laugh. Don't try so hard to be someone who "teaches" around here. You've got some good qualities, but you can't expect to be more knowledgeable than many of the people here who have lived 2, 3, 4 times longer than you have. Relax, pick your spots, and try to be respectful of your elders ( ... which would be everybody ).

[JSngry]

I listened to Bob James and that whole crew back in the '70s.

To Kat -

Bob James did a lot of very good stuff in the 70s. It was clever, extremely well produced, the arranging paid a lot of attention to color and shading, and he used some of the best players in the business, who gave everything an undeniable groove. I like a whole lot of that stuff even today.

But hey - it ain't "jazz" as most of us here know and love it. It's something else with different goals, socialy as well as musically, and when I say that I like it, that's all I need to say. I don't need to try to call it something that it ain't. I've got the courage of my convictions to say that I like a whole lot of shit that, objectively, is pretty damn insignificant relative to the future of humanity and all that. I know that, and don't pretend otherwise. I like it (and admit to liking it) because something in it brings me a certain type of pleasure (not for nothin' was the phrase "ear candy" invented...), I know why I like it, I know it's relative "importance" in the grand scheme of things, and at the end of the day, I still know what's waht and who's who. No illusions and/or delusions.

Spyro Gyra was a staple of people and places who also favored Michael Franks (who I have no use for), and in their time of peak popularity, they certainly would have been labeled a "smooth jazz" band, except that the term hadn't been invented yet. But I can tell you that their records were staples of fern bars, otganic grocery stores, chi-chi restaurants, unisex hair salons, and all sorts of places where their type of music enhanced the atmosphere. Not that that proves anything, but it's the case nevertheless.

Like what you like, but geez, if ever a band could ne cakked a "prototypical smmoth jazz band", it' s Spyro Gyra. That only presents a problem is you're unwilling to admit to yourself that you like certain smooth jazz, in which case, the problem is with you, not with those who (rightly, imo) are pointing out to you that yeah, the players have all got chops, yeah thier material often incorporates lots of different influences, and that, yeah, they'reprobably one of the better smooth jazz bands.

Why don't you just admit it 0 you like certain smooth jazz/pop jazz, and be done with it. Hell, I've said as much before in these fora, and will do so again. Don't like much of it, but there's some of it that's good. No big deal. Now, if you go off and start claiming that Jay Beckenstein is the most powerful saxophone voice of his generation, or something wack like that, then yeah, the punishment will be brutal. But dude - it's ok to like stuff that's not considered "hip". Just know why you like it, keep the shit in perspectivem and don't get so hung up on it that you lose sight of the bigger picture.

Edited April 29, 2005 by JSngry

[Lazaro Vega]

Look at how high on the charts "Morning Dance" made it on the "Smooth Rock" radio stations when that band first broke out. That was their crowd. Commercial Easy Listening.

As Johnny Griffin would say, "Callitwatchyawanna."

(edit to change from "Easy Listening" to "Smooth Rock").

Edited April 30, 2005 by Lazaro Vega