Spyro Gyra

[Jazz Kat]

What do you think of them. Now please only answer if you are very familiar with their music. Many people make the mistake of calling them a smooth jazz band, which is wrong, but then they don't give them the time of day because of that label.

I have been a fan since the summer. They are a great band, IMO. Their debut release, is 100% funk. Then with their success of Morning Dance, they turned a little bit more commercial from album to album. Their highlights for me are Caranval, City Kids, Access All Areas, Rites Of Summer, Dreams Beyond Control, and Three Wishes. And no matter how successful their crossover hit, Morning Dance was, that album is a damn good album. I love when they brake into a straight ahead swing, as they do on several songs on the album. Their new album, Deep End, has a really funky piece, Chippewa Street. it's awesome! I went to a concert of theres in Jersey, they are a totaly awesome band live! Very enjoyable.

What do you think, if you really know them?

[Chuck Nessa]

[Michael Fitzgerald]

If you call that first album "100% funk" - we aren't speaking a common language and it may be very difficult to communicate here.

Occasional nice melodies, decent (if limited) musicianship. Beckenstein cannot get out of the pentatonic rut. The Coltrane tribute based on Naima really doesn't cut it, but I award points for even trying. This band and actual jazz music have a few things in common, but they're not the same. BTW, I never could figure out if Dave Samuels was playing in that band just for the money or what. Anything past the mid 1980s (dawn of CD 101.9 radio) I have simply avoided.

Certainly they are head and shoulders above the billions of pale imitations, but there is very little nutrition in their musical candyfloss.

Mike

[Jazz Kat]

I can't believe I even tried this here. I respect you, you have your facts straight, but what you say is clearly all your opinion. They are a tight band, worthy of listen from some of their 1990's recordings, but I can't make you, nor do I care all that much. And no Samuels was not in it for the money. He stated in Downbeat in 1981 that "They are one of the few groups who still respect the art of improvisation and soloing. Normally when I play on a track, mostly once its mixed you can't even hear it. With Spyro Gyra, I have been a featured soloist on several of their recordings." (This was before he became an official member) So he indeed didn't just join for the money. Listen to a song like Breakout, or The Archer, which feature top notch playing. I absolutely love it.

[JSngry]

They do what they do really well. I just don't care for what they do.

[Aggie87]

[Jazz Kat]

Now I can really respect that!

[Jazz Kat]

(to Jim's post)

[Chuck Nessa]

Any doctor can give you a shot to clear it up. B-)

[Jazz Kat]

[marcello]

They are from Buffalo and I not only used to hear them in the begining but their guitar player then, Chet Catallo was someone I knew from Rochester. The piano player Tom Shulman (?) is from here too.

They are just really, a bar band with some light latin percussion.

Don't believe Dave Samuels, that's a lot of, you know, crap.

But you know if you can dig it; get out the wine cooler and the suntan lotion and be happy.

[Jazz Kat]

.

Don't believe Dave Samuels, that's a lot of, you know, crap.

how so?

[Michael Fitzgerald]

A tight band - that's decent musicianship. End of story. The local high school jazz band can rehearse until they're tight.

I will agree with Samuels - Spyro Gyra DO respect the idea of soloing and improvisation. They do NOT simply paraphrase the melody over and over like some smooth jazz folks do. Samuels got a good deal because they got his name spread around very nicely (but I doubt that many SG fans have his stuff with Gerry Mulligan or his ECM records with Double Image and others). And Samuels certainly helped SG keep some kind of jazz credibility. But I still don't think you are in a position to say definitively what kept him in the band. For years he was just a guest, getting paid to play on the records. At some point maybe he cut bait with his own solo career and decided to get on the gravy train. Can't fault him - look at so many others who toured with big bands, played in Broadway pits, etc.

However, "top notch playing" - compared to what? Compared to smooth jazz stuff? Sure, and I said as much. Compared to most rock folks? Sure, I'll go along with that. But compared to serious jazz players? Sorry, nope. When these guys were getting noticed, the Pat Metheny Group and the last versions of Weather Report were going. And there ain't no comparison in terms of the musicianship and musicality. SG is more in line with the Jeff Lorber Fusion - occasional nice stuff, but nothing monumental.

So, you asked your question, you got an answer you didn't like (from someone who isn't ignorant of the music). Why ask the question in the first place? You wanted 10 people to just say "Yeah! Spyro Gyra ROCKS!" ?

Mike

[Jazz Kat]

BTW,

their pianist is Tom Schuman. And I wouldn't call them a light bar band. Like all bands, some songs are light, but oh, why am I wasting my time...

[Jazz Kat]

A tight band - that's decent musicianship. End of story. The local high school jazz band can rehearse until they're tight.

I will agree with Samuels - Spyro Gyra DO respect the idea of soloing and improvisation. They do NOT simply paraphrase the melody over and over like some smooth jazz folks do. Samuels got a good deal because they got his name spread around very nicely (but I doubt that many SG fans have his stuff with Gerry Mulligan or his ECM records with Double Image and others). And Samuels certainly helped SG keep some kind of jazz credibility. But I still don't think you are in a position to say definitively what kept him in the band. For years he was just a guest, getting paid to play on the records. At some point maybe he cut bait with his own solo career and decided to get on the gravy train. Can't fault him - look at so many others who toured with big bands, played in Broadway pits, etc.

However, "top notch playing" - compared to what? Compared to smooth jazz stuff? Sure, and I said as much. Compared to most rock folks? Sure, I'll go along with that. But compared to serious jazz players? Sorry, nope. When these guys were getting noticed, the Pat Metheny Group and the last versions of Weather Report were going. And there ain't no comparison in terms of the musicianship and musicality. SG is more in line with the Jeff Lorber Fusion - occasional nice stuff, but nothing monumental.

So, you asked your question, you got an answer you didn't like (from someone who isn't ignorant of the music). Why ask the question in the first place? You wanted 10 people to just say "Yeah! Spyro Gyra ROCKS!" ?

Mike

Michael, I already said I respected you with your first post. You don;t just give wierd smileys, you explain it. But most of it is your opinion. Dave Samuels started off as a guest star, toured with them even, joined them officialy for their 1985 album, Alternating Currents. Samuels left to dedicate his time to the Caribean Jazz Project. Simple as that. What credibility don't I have. Not much to it. He was a part of the band, now he's not. He left to devote his time to his own band. And yes, many Spyro Gyra fans I know, have a lot of 1960's hard bop and such, and do hate smooth jazz. Am I comparing Jay Beckenstein to Coltrane, no, but Beckenstein is my favorite player, in my favorite band.

[Chuck Nessa]

Beckenstein is my favorite player, in my favorite band.

[Jazz Kat]

And this coming from the man who said to "fucking grow up."

[Jazz Kat]

My days here might be numbered. Fuck it, not that anybody cares.

[Michael Fitzgerald]

Well, perhaps you believe that just because everyone is entitled to his opinion that everyone's opinion is of equal worth. And it may be a long time before you realize that isn't the case. Might never happen. Can't help there.

Mike

[marcello]

Geez Jazz Kat, I thought Mr. Fitzgerald and myself gave respectful, honest and considerate replies. By the way I said "a bar band with light latin percussion" not "light bar band".

You may want to listen to the Christian McBride band for a example of....but oh why am I wasting My time?

[Jazz Kat]

How many times do I have to say I respected ALL OF MICHAEL'S REPLIES!!! THEY WERE VERY INTELIGENT.

PEACE OUT DUDES!!!

[Michael Fitzgerald]

Your initial response "I can't believe I tried this here" sounds like frustration. But maybe it's just simple amazement. "Why am I wasting my time" - now THAT's got to be frustration. Are you really surprised that people believe that you're frustrated?

Now, who can answer this definitively: is Jay Beckenstein (born in Brooklyn, 1951) the son of the great session woodwind player Ray Beckenstein (born in Brooklyn, 1923)?

It always seemed to be logical to me, but I can't find it in any web blurb.

Mike

[chris olivarez]

I respect you Jazz Kat for sticking up for your favorite band but you have to realize that there is the possibility not everyone shares your point of view on Spyrogyra or whatever band you like.

If you really like a certain artist then like them and don't worry too much about anyone elses's opinion but on the other hand don't get so bent out of shape when someone expresses a viewpoint that is contrary to your own.

Edited April 29, 2005 by chris olivarez

[marcello]

Their new album, Deep End, has a really funky piece, Chippewa Street. it's awesome!

Here's some trivia for our young Jazz Kat:

Chippewa Street , in Buffalo, used to be famous for streetwalkers and other funky vices.

I guess now ( I havn't been in the "Queen City" for many years, the last times was to see Wayne and Sonny ) that area has been gentrified.

I'm sure those mayonnaise faced boys ( a Italo-American term meaning, roughly, suburban/white/rich ) of Spyro Gyra are referring to the later incarnation of the neighborhood?

[Alexander]

Their new album, Deep End, has a really funky piece, Chippewa Street. it's awesome!

Here's some trivia for our young Jazz Kat:

Chippewa Street , in Buffalo, used to be famous for streetwalkers and other funky vices.

I guess now ( I havn't been in the "Queen City" for many years, the last times was to see Wayne and Sonny ) that area has been gentrified.

I'm sure those mayonnaise faced boys ( a Italo-American term meaning, roughly, suburban/white/rich ) of Spyro Gyra are referring to the later incarnation of the neighborhood?

I don't know. If they're old enough, I'd imagine that they're familar with the earlier incarnation of Chippewa. That's certainly the association *I* make, and I grew up in Buffalo during the late 70s and early 80s. Chippewa was notorious at my elementary school (Waterfront) and was often the subject of dirty jokes and insinuating allusions. I remember that some friends and I wrote a parody of Toto's "Africa" called "Chippewa." I don't remember anything except the chorus: "I bless the whores down on Chiiiiipewaaaa..."

Edited April 29, 2005 by Alexander