Tony Fruscella

[AllenLowe]

this an old thread, and I apologize if I've already said this, but back in the '70s when I lived in NYC, two musicians - separately and completely independently of each other - said almost the same thing in almost the same words about Fruscella  - Sir John Godfrey the drummer and Bill Triglia the pianist (one black and one white and there was no racial politics involved):

"Fruscella was playing that style before Miles, and he had it together before Miles."

Also, Triglia told me that Sonny Rollins used to go to Fruscella's place to rehearse with him. Imagine that.

[clifford_thornton]

Charlie Haden told me Fruscella was the most beautiful trumpet player he experienced.

[Larry Kart]

2 hours ago, AllenLowe said:

this an old thread, and I apologize if I've already said this, but back in the '70s when I lived in NYC, two musicians - separately and completely independently of each other - said almost the same thing in almost the same words about Fruscella  - Sir John Godfrey the drummer and Bill Triglia the pianist (one black and one white and there was no racial politics involved):

"Fruscella was playing that style before Miles, and he had it together before Miles."

Also, Triglia told me that Sonny Rollins used to go to Fruscella's place to rehearse with him. Imagine that.

Leave us not forget Fruscella's like-minded friend Don Joseph. He left behind a fine album on Uptown, lovely solos on Chuck Wayne's "String Fever" and a gorgeous passage on Gerry Muligan's no less gorgeous big band arrangement of "All the Things You Are."

[Kevin Bresnahan]

Jazz Profile by Jack Gordon on Fruscella: https://jazzprofiles.blogspot.com/2020/04/tony-fruscella-by-gordon-jack.html

I found it kinda sad to read. The guy clearly had a drug & alcohol problem that pretty much ruined him.

[AllenLowe]

1 hour ago, Larry Kart said:

Leave us not forget Fruscella's like-minded friend Don Joseph. He left behind a fine album on Uptown, lovely solos on Chuck Wayne's "String Fever" and a gorgeous passage on Gerry Muligan's no less gorgeous big band arrangement of "All the Things You Are."

I have to admit that, much as I admire Joseph's playing, I know too much about him. Last time I said this about a musician everyone got mad at me for revealing some things, so I will keep it to myself.

[Larry Kart]

4 hours ago, AllenLowe said:

I have to admit that, much as I admire Joseph's playing, I know too much about him. Last time I said this about a musician everyone got mad at me for revealing some things, so I will keep it to myself.

I know nothing one way or the other about Joseph the person, only about Joseph the player.

[sgcim]

5 hours ago, AllenLowe said:

I have to admit that, much as I admire Joseph's playing, I know too much about him. Last time I said this about a musician everyone got mad at me for revealing some things, so I will keep it to myself.

Don't tell me you know what he said over the mic at a 'catered affair'?

[Larry Kart]

So who would hire Don Joseph to play a Bar Mitzvah?

[sgcim]

10 minutes ago, Larry Kart said:

So who would hire Don Joseph to play a Bar Mitzvah?

Good point, but do you know what he said?

[Larry Kart]

4 minutes ago, sgcim said:

Good point, but do you know what he said?

No. Please tell us if you do know.

[sgcim]

27 minutes ago, Larry Kart said:

No. Please tell us if you do know.

No way! I already got in enough trouble with what I said in the Raquel Welch thread (I actually received a warning on another site  , and they deleted itl I deleted it on this site).

If I posted this one, it could cause WWIII!

[Niko]

18 hours ago, Quasimado said:

#3 shows a strong Tristano influence - the pianist sounds like Lennie and the tenor like Warne. Somebody should ask Lennie Popkin about this ...

If it is a Tristano group, the trumpet could be Don Ferrara - I have never heard any early Ferrara, and this cat sounds early (but he's trying to say something) ...

The tunes lack something - there were some European groups in the early 50's that sounded like this - but I doubt they recorded at Van Gelders...

Agree on all counts, it really feels very Tristanoite (with a dose of Birth of the Cool sprinkled in) and the tenor player also sounds much cooler / less prezish and swinging than Urso on those other tracks... So most likely not a lost track from that Fruscella session but still a fascinating piece of early 50s NY cool jazz

[Larry Kart]

14 hours ago, Larry Kart said:

I know nothing one way or the other about Joseph the person, only about Joseph the player.

Wait. I do know that Joseph was claustrophobic, and once he settled in Staten Island he basically couldn't leave because of fear of entering the tunnel to Manhattan.

[AllenLowe]

It's not what he said but what he did. Let's just say, remember that Beatle song "Boys"? Or maybe "Younger than Spring Time;" "Go Away Little Boy;" "I Want a Little Boy."

Edited February 28, 2023 by AllenLowe

[JSngry]

That wasn't a Beatle song. 

 

Are you saying that he was The Secret Shirelle? 

[danasgoodstuff]

Shirelles'

[JSngry]

Was he a secret tenor player?

Pretty good one then!

 

[sgcim]

5 hours ago, AllenLowe said:

It's not what he said but what he did. Let's just say, remember that Beatle song "Boys"? Or maybe "Younger than Spring Time;" "Go Away Little Boy;" "I Want a Little Boy."

I never heard anything about that. 🤮

A keyboard player/composer was a close friend of his on SI, and he never said a word about that.

He would describe to my friend in rapturous terms about using H. That was one of the reasons why I never hung with DJ, though he kicked it, and became an alcoholic, and then got into some religious thing to kick alcohol.

I thought that maybe he used drugs to self-medicate against the panic attacks he got when he was faced with phobic situations, but my friend said it was all about the rush he got from it.

[sgcim]

14 hours ago, Larry Kart said:

Wait. I do know that Joseph was claustrophobic, and once he settled in Staten Island he basically couldn't leave because of fear of entering the tunnel to Manhattan.

He was going to some gig in Jersey with another musician driving, and when they hit the toll lane DJ started shaking like mad. The next thing you know, he bolted out of the car without his trumpet and never came back.

He was supposed to play the trumpet part for the Jackie Gleason Show theme, but  couldn't handle the anticiipatory anxiety about the panic attacks he'd suffer from going over bridges, through tunnels or even worse, taking a plane.

I don't know if he just didn't show up, or if he turned the gig down.

[Quasimado]

On 2/28/2023 at 5:03 PM, Niko said:

Agree on all counts, it really feels very Tristanoite (with a dose of Birth of the Cool sprinkled in) and the tenor player also sounds much cooler / less prezish and swinging than Urso on those other tracks... So most likely not a lost track from that Fruscella session but still a fascinating piece of early 50s NY cool jazz

Re #3, while the pianist sounds like Tristano, I think it unlikely to be him - the solos, although similar in style, seem to display a slight lack of surety/ confidence that Tristano never did - listen to his (LT) solos on the Capitol session, recorded in January 1949, for example. The pianist is probably one of his students of the time (late 40's early 50's), such as Lloyd Lifton or Sal Mosca. The same reasoning could be applied to the tenor, although I have no idea who else of the school apart from Marsh it could be. The trumpet could be early Don Ferrara - he was studying with LT from about 1947...

 

 

 

[Justin V]

I'm surprised Allen's post is allowed to stand.  

[AllenLowe]

11 hours ago, sgcim said:

I never heard anything about that. 🤮

A keyboard player/composer was a close friend of his on SI, and he never said a word about that.

He would describe to my friend in rapturous terms about using H. That was one of the reasons why I never hung with DJ, though he kicked it, and became an alcoholic, and then got into some religious thing to kick alcohol.

I thought that maybe he used drugs to self-medicate against the panic attacks he got when he was faced with phobic situations, but my friend said it was all about the rush he got from it.

there was a nice lady, an old hipster ('50s type) whose brother was a well known writer, and we were talking about the 1950s jazz musicians she knew. When I mention his name she blanched and said she would never even say his name, for reasons she explained to me.

[Big Beat Steve]

1 hour ago, AllenLowe said:

there was a nice lady, an old hipster ('50s type) whose brother was a well known writer, and we were talking about the 1950s jazz musicians she knew. When I mention his name she blanched and said she would never even say his name, for reasons she explained to me.

The Voldemort of 50s hipsterdom?

[JSngry]

So who DID play tenor on that Shirelles record?

[Pim]

On 3/1/2023 at 2:42 PM, Justin V said:

I'm surprised Allen's post is allowed to stand.  

Yeah. Is it really allowed to accuse someone of being a pedophile based on something some old lady said? Without the accused one around to say something in defense? And this all in a Tony Fruscella thread? Or am I understanding it all wrong trough the language barrier?