Guest WINGY (I STAY BOMBED) Posted November 25, 2003 Report Posted November 25, 2003 I have to go along with HARDBOP on the Chris A feud. It was Christiern and Stapleton mainly who got DEEP blown out of AAJ. Some people would complain if you HANGED THEM WITH A NEW ROPE!! Here's a personal E mail I received re the DEEP episode at AAJ (at which Christiern was at the helm). A lot of the same J.O.s post at Organnisimo as at AAJ. It's really funny....they talk all this liberal shit until you break their balls and then it's like BURN THE BOOKS...BAN HIM Jazz prudes are the biggest enemy of JAZZ MUSIC. And re Bessie Smith: She wasn't even a Jazz Singer. Isn't there a BLUES BOARD someplace for topics where this BLUES SINGER could be more appreciated?? WINGY Quote
Christiern Posted November 25, 2003 Report Posted November 25, 2003 Just to set the record straight, it was DEEP who got himself "blown off" AAJ--not anyone else. Ditto JCorner. As I said before, DEEP can be a tremendous asset, but he can also be a tremendous ass. Unfortunately, he has a history of strolling into a BBS with personal insults and offensive language strapped to his body, and when he goes POOF!, we all suffer. The odd part of all this is that DEEP really does not believe the nonsense he posts, he is playing games--trolling, if you will. When it comes to trolls, the best remedy is to ignore them. Quote
David Ayers Posted November 25, 2003 Report Posted November 25, 2003 OK I will admit to being more of a skimmer than a deep reader of this board.... BUT, someone has to help me out here. How come mnytime is posting here months after we all attended his funeral? No doubt this has all been discussed but I missed it and I feel a need to know... Quote
grey Posted November 25, 2003 Report Posted November 25, 2003 How come mnytime is posting here months after we all attended his funeral? I'm lost here. What does that mean? Quote
Christiern Posted November 25, 2003 Report Posted November 25, 2003 David, this thread was started last summer--I believe the mnytime post is vintage. Quote
David Ayers Posted November 25, 2003 Report Posted November 25, 2003 Didn't we have a whole thing here from mnytime's brother saying he was in a coma and about to die? I can't find any of it now as it seems to have been deleted. What was the outcome of all of that? No-one seems to have made any further reference to it. Quote
Rooster_Ties Posted November 25, 2003 Report Posted November 25, 2003 When it comes to trolls, the best remedy is to ignore them. Amen to that!!! Quote
David Ayers Posted November 25, 2003 Report Posted November 25, 2003 David, this thread was started last summer--I believe the mnytime post is vintage. Ohhhhhh.... silly me. Serves me right for reading all the old rubbish that gets trawled up. Quote
Guest WINGY (I STAY BOMBED) Posted November 25, 2003 Report Posted November 25, 2003 (edited) The odd part of all this is that DEEP really does not believe the nonsense he posts, he is playing games--trolling, if you will. When it comes to trolls, the best remedy is to ignore them. I wonder why the "IGNORE OPTION" wasn't utilized at AAJ in regard to DEEP'S "trolling"?? And I still stand by assessment that BESSIE SMITH WAS *NOT* A JAZZ SINGER !! Wingy Edited November 25, 2003 by WINGY (I STAY BOMBED) Quote
Christiern Posted November 25, 2003 Report Posted November 25, 2003 BESSIE: Excerpts from reviews of the original edition. ”Bessie” is by Chris Albertson, a Danish jazz scholar who emigrated to this country fifteen years ago. Albertson has managed a triple feat: he has written the first estimable full-length biography not only of Bessie Smith but of any black musician; he has successfully immersed himself in a black world that has almost vanished; and he has at last removed from Bessie Smith the myths that have enclosed her for almost four decades. Whitney Balliett – The New Yorker, February 24, 1973. The men ad women whose contributions to the lively arts have proven most durable throughout the past century have been observed, if we are fortunate enough to have been their contemporaries, in the bright light of in-person performances. First-hand evaluations by discerning critics also have helped bring our perspective into focus. More often, though, the great singers, musicians, dancers, actors have become dim figures, seen through a hazy mist of legend, cultism and wishful thinking. Plays, books and movies designed to eulogize them too often have simply romanticized and fictionalized. An imposing exception to this rule is BESSIE by Chris Albertson (Stein & Day: $7.95). The product of painstaking research, this biography of Bessie Smith is the most devastating, provocative and enlightening work of its kind ever contributed to the annals of jazz literature…. Leonard Feather — The Los Angeles Times, January 14, 1973. ________________________________________________________________________ “Bessie” is an invaluable study of an era and a personality. Most of the myths surrounding her hectic life have been passed on through writers who never took the trouble to find out the truth. Edward Albee’s play “The Death of Bessie Smith,” writings by John Hammond and other jazz authors all are obsolete now with the publication of this book. Her turbulent, tormented life will heighten appreciation for her unique vocalizing, with lyrics she wrote adding further insight to her personal drama. I can’t remember a book I found so gripping yet so shocking. Having been a fan of Bessie’s records for 30 years yet not knowing anything about her except the legends makes this new reference book invaluable. All the great and near-great names of jazz and swing filter through the chapters. It will make one heck of a movie if Hollywood doesn’t corrupt it in the way it fictionalized Billie Holiday’s life. Barbara Bladen — The Times (San Mateo, CA), January 22, 1973. ________________________________________________________________________ …a book that is not only the best biography of Bessie available, but probably the best one we’re likely to get. Arthur Cooper — Newsweek, January 22, 1973. ________________________________________________________________________ Chris Albertson’s primary achievement in writing this book is to clear away the misinformation, obscurity surrounding Bessie Smith. This biography of the best-known blues singer ever is also a landmark in the writing of jazz history….As one of the few first-rate biographies of a jazz or blues artist, the book is a significant step in the creation of a body of jazz historiography. Hollie I. West — The Washington Post, January 23, 1973. ________________________________________________________________________ Bessie by Chris Albertson (Stein and Day, $7.95) is the life story of a woman who was advertised throughout the entertainment world as “The Greatest Blues Singer in the World.” It is by a record expert who was born and reared in Iceland and Denmark, but he tells the story so well that one would think he has been raised in the Negro show world, and believe me I have been familiar with that world for fifty years….This is a story in depth; not the press agent stuff culled from theatrical columns, but intimate details from friends, acquaintances and relatives. The story of a talented black woman who was human as well as an artist. It is not easy for a white man, and a European at that, to penetrate the black society and the life style of a black woman whom he never personally met. Chris Albertson has done it, and I urge you to read it. Schuyler — New Hampshire Manchester Union Leader, January 1973. ________________________________________________________________________ With the fanatical thoroughness that is the hallmark of European scholars hooked on Afro-American music, Albertson has combed the files of record companies and newspapers, and bird-dogged anyone who knew Bessie—relatives, lovers, fellow performers—to give us this first full-dress biography of an artist “black and proud before that became the acceptable thing to be.” More than a portrait of this boisterous, brooding woman, Bessie unfolds the black sub-culture of the Twenties: the speakeasies and “buffet flats” where Pullman porters and headliners reveled in a high life that rivaled the Krafft-Ebing cabarets of Berlin, the vaudeville circuits, record studios, and sheet music firms—a holocaust of rip-offs, plagiarism, non-payment, swindling contracts, and appalling racism…Bessie will take an immediate and permanent place in the literature of jazz. Grover Sales — Saturday Review of The Arts, April 1973. This is an honest attempt to provide at last a thoroughly researched biography of Bessie Smith. The fact that the great blues singer died so long ago (in 1937) inevitably imposed limitations on the author, but he conscientiously sought out associates who knew her well and critically re-examined the existing literature on the subject. Previous writing about her was slight and repetitious, and knowledge of her will be notably expanded by the original material to be found here. … The light the book sheds on show business of the period, its ethics and people, is valuable in itself. Stanley Dance — Music Journal, April 1973. Although warned by advance rumours, it is still a shock for Bessie Smith admirers to discover that so much of the received mythology which we have believed as gospel is without foundation …the most radical section of the book reassesses the facts surrounding her death. Somehow her refusal by the White hospital seemed so symbolically apt that although several previous experts had done their best to discredit it, most of us wanted to believe it. Albertson has finally exploded it, checked hospital records, interviewed the heroic doctor who happened upon the disaster, refuted the whole death of Bessie Smith industry of which the playwright Edward Albee is the most recent and distinguished shareholder. George Melly —The Observer Review (London), May 27, 1973. In the first serious study of her life, “Bessie” (Stein & Day, $7.95), author Chris Albertson paints a three-dimensional portrait of the famed blues singer, her life and times. …(Throughout the book, Albertson points out the disgraceful lack of attention paid to documenting black history.) Albertson, however, is a scholarly and meticulous researcher, careful to relate discrepancies or conflicting stories without necessarily drawing his own conclusions. His obvious attention to accuracy effectively underscores some of the tragic elements to her life, heretofore undisclosed or obscured… Albertson’s book bares it all; the artistic successes, the personal failures . Not only is Bessie’s person explored, but her milieu — buffet flats, Harlem night clubs, Chicago speakeasies — and the prevailing conditions, both in society at large and the recording industry in specific. Her tumultuous affairs with both men and women are depicted in detail. As are her achievements in recording. Joel Selvin —San Francisco Chronicle, February 18, 1973. This book shows us the real Bessie Smith, victim of her times and self-appointed purveyor of the law to any who crossed her path in her struggle to survive, and no respector of persons in a class society. This is a somewhat seedy and sordid disclosure, yet presented fairly, and in no way does her biographer give the impression of being sensational for the sake of effect. There will, however, be many who feel that their favourite should have been revered with a star treatment biography, but truth will out, and Chris Albertson has produced a work worthy of the dedicated journalist, an unbiased record of the life of a legendary woman. An essential purchase this, for the jazz and blues enthusiast, or historian of the American theatre. John G. Featherstone — aired on Jazz A’Plenty, and Between the Lines, Radio Manchester (UK), May 1973. Chris Albertson—extraordinary, dedicated jazzman and good writer—a rare combo and so this is a rare biography… BESSIE is at once affectionate and avidly objective. It is no glossover of the bountiful, volcanic, rich and flawed lady and is obviously the result of care, time, intelligence and endless research and interviewing. Her unapologetic passion and omnisexuality are not blinked and her basic attitudes toward the society of her day are clear as when—for instance—she speaks about the flaunting, wealthy white Harlem slummery. …BESSIE is a must for all who love jazz old and-or new. It is worth a look-in even for the most mod… Ronald H. Bayes — The Fayette Observer (NC), February 18, 1973. To set the record as straight as possible, Albertson tracked down some previously silent important sources, notably Ruby Walker, Bessie’s niece and constant companion during her last fourteen years; Jack Gee, Jr., Bessie’s adopted son, who had disappeared from sight; and jazz giant Lionel Hampton, nephew of Richard Morgan who was Bessie’s great love. Albertson has woven their recollections and already-known facts into a book that is not only the best biography of Bessie available, but probably the best one we’re likely to get. Arthur Cooper — Newsweek, January 22, 1973. __________________________ Perhaps not a "jazz" singer (some will give you an argument here), but definitely one who attracts the attention of jazz critics. With this, my ignoring of trollery begins. Quote
Guest WINGY (I STAY BOMBED) Posted November 25, 2003 Report Posted November 25, 2003 BESSIE was no more a jazz singer than Aretha Franklin, Dionne Warwick or Mahalia Jackson. It kills me how all these European pundits try to express the "JAZZ EXPERIENCE" vicariously thru these Black artists. They sit in their Central Park apartments, London flats, Norwegian Chateaus around their warm fireplaces and try to make money off "THE AMERICAN EXPERIENCE". Bessie Smith was fine for State Fairs, Medicine Shows, Pentecostal Caravans, Rodeos, Holy Roller Meetings etc. Her recordings had a few good participants like POPs, Fletcher, Charlie Green etc. but for sure were not any kind of big influence on Jazz. At best her life could make an interesting R Rated movie but by the time the Prudes got a hold of it the rating would be GP......OH GOD...SHE USED SWEAR WORDS!!!....DUH!! If you wanna talk about *SMITH* Jazz singers then consider KEELY SMITH... ...Yeah that's right...SHE WAS A JAZZ SINGER. Christ, for that matter, KATE SMITH was more of a Jazz Singer than Bessie...at least she could pull off singin' a ballad. WINGY Quote
catesta Posted November 25, 2003 Report Posted November 25, 2003 BUT, someone has to help me out here. How come mnytime is posting here months after we all attended his funeral? Intended as or not, this is one funny ass post. Quote
maren Posted November 25, 2003 Report Posted November 25, 2003 Wingy -- please note, this is the MISCELLANEOUS forum. Quote
Jazzmoose Posted November 25, 2003 Report Posted November 25, 2003 I wonder why the "IGNORE OPTION" wasn't utilized at AAJ in regard to DEEP'S "trolling"?? It was by me. Unfortunately, that option isn't available on this board. Quote
Jim Alfredson Posted November 25, 2003 Report Posted November 25, 2003 Although I just found out a new version of this software has been released. Perhaps the allmighty ignore function is included? I'll find out... Quote
Rooster_Ties Posted November 25, 2003 Report Posted November 25, 2003 Although I just found out a new version of this software has been released. Perhaps the allmighty ignore function is included? I'll find out... Thank you for checking Jim. If it's available, I think there may be some need for it. Quote
catesta Posted November 25, 2003 Report Posted November 25, 2003 I would hate to think I was being ignored. Quote
Jim Alfredson Posted November 25, 2003 Report Posted November 25, 2003 Ah, unfortunately such a feature is not included in ver 1.3 (the newest version). However, a major overhaul is coming out, supposedly in January, with version 2.0 and they are asking for input on what we'd like to see. I will make the request for an ignore function. Quote
catesta Posted November 25, 2003 Report Posted November 25, 2003 RT, you'll have to do it manually for now. Quote
Jim Alfredson Posted November 25, 2003 Report Posted November 25, 2003 Looks like a lot of people are asking for an ignore function in ver. 2.0 so it'll most likely be in there. We'll have to wait until the new year to find out! Quote
Jazzmoose Posted November 25, 2003 Report Posted November 25, 2003 I would hate to think I was being ignored. I'm sorry; did you say something? Quote
BERIGAN Posted November 26, 2003 Report Posted November 26, 2003 The odd part of all this is that DEEP really does not believe the nonsense he posts, he is playing games--trolling, if you will. When it comes to trolls, the best remedy is to ignore them. I wonder why the "IGNORE OPTION" wasn't utilized at AAJ in regard to DEEP'S "trolling"?? And I still stand by assessment that BESSIE SMITH WAS *NOT* A JAZZ SINGER !! Wingy There never has been a jazz singer..... Quote
JSngry Posted November 26, 2003 Report Posted November 26, 2003 ...except for Al Jolson, Danny Thomas, and Neil Diamond. Quote
Big Al Posted November 26, 2003 Report Posted November 26, 2003 I'd like to know more about Hardbop's listening habits and Hardbop in general. He seems to be an important figure in the world of music consumption and music talk. He'd like everyone to think that. He's nothing but a wanker, a poser, a Stanley- Crouch-wannabe. A simple glancing of any of his posts reveals his extreme pro-Wynton anti-creativity bias. Quote
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