Baseball 2005

[Evonce]

They say the ball had "movement", which it did - inside the mitt. And I don't know how the home plate ump is supposed to see any of this anyway.

It's standard practice for officials to look at controversial, errant calls after the fact and deem them "inconclusive". If it's that goddamn inconclusive, it shouldn't have been called in the first place.

Good article from Jim Caple on ESPN about this. Typical Ozzie response: he didn't even want to see the replay.

Edited October 13, 2005 by Evonce

[J Larsen]

I think the biggest problem isn't whether the ball hit the dirt or not, but whether the ump called the third out after AJ K'ed. I think he clearly did.

[jazzypaul]

My biggest qualm is this: once we make the world series, all of the sports writers are going to say that we didn't earn it. Much like 1918, we're going to have a black mark all over this world series appearance as well.

As for Ozzie, I don't blame him for not wanting to see it. What's done is done. What good does it do him to know at this point? Not to mention, it's not like he's going to be able miss it in LA.

[John Tapscott]

An absolutely ridiculous call. In the replays I saw, I sure didn't see any movement on the ball. In fact, the replays show the ball was caught cleanly. I have no particular favorite in this Series, but now I'm rooting for the Angels. I also hope that from now on in this series, whenever an Angel batter strikes out, he immediately takes off for first base, no matter where the ball is caught!

[Evonce]

I don't hold anything against the W.Sox for last night. For all anyone knows, they would have won in the 10th inning. But I will hold it against the umpire. I'm not actually rooting for either team, but you just hate seeing stuff like that decide the game, no matter who's playing.

[jazzypaul]

  John Tapscott said:

An absolutely ridiculous call. In the replays I saw, I sure didn't see any movement on the ball.  In fact, the replays show the ball was caught cleanly. I have no particular favorite in this Series, but now I'm rooting for the Angels. I also hope that from now on in this series, whenever an Angel batter strikes out, he immediately takes off for first base, no matter where the ball is caught!

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yeah, because the ump was actually Frank Thomas in disguise or something.

It was a bad call by a blind ump, not a white sox conspiracy. If there was any doubt whatsoever, the catcher should've tagged him.

[Brad]

Look it was not a good call. That's agreed but then it's incumbent upon the pitcher to recompose himself and get the batter out. He didn't do that. His call prolonged the inning but didn't by itself lose the game.

I know White Sox and Angels fans find this series fascinating or whatever, but right now it's not doing much for me. I don't see much sizzle with the Yanks and Red Sox out.

[John Tapscott]

  jazzypaul said:

[ If there was any doubt whatsoever, the catcher should've tagged him.

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There was obviously no doubt in the catcher's mind. If there had been, I'm sure he would have tagged him. You see that happen in nearly every game at some point. If there was doubt in the ump's mind, he should have called "No catch" rather than signalling third strike (or in addition to calling third strike). The catcher can hardly know what's on the umpire's mind if the ump doesn't speak up.

Go Angels!

[jazzypaul]

  John Tapscott said:

  jazzypaul said:

[ If there was any doubt whatsoever, the catcher should've tagged him.

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There was obviously no doubt in the catcher's mind. If there had been, I'm sure he would have tagged him. You see that happen in nearly every game at some point. If there was doubt in the ump's mind, he should have called "No catch" rather than signalling third strike (or in addition to calling third strike). The catcher can hardly know what's on the umpire's mind if the ump doesn't speak up.

Go Angels!

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Well, that's why you don't put an inexperienced catcher in a Championship game. I won't say that the ball bounced in the dirt, because it obviously didn't, but it did look to me like it could've been a trap ball. I don't know exactly how you'd call that.

Root for the Angels in vain all you want, this is the White Sox year.

[John Tapscott]

  jazzypaul said:

  I won't say that the ball bounced in the dirt, because it obviously didn't, but it did look to me like it could've been a trap ball.  I don't know exactly how you'd call that.

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Baseball's version of the "tuck" rule?

[Dan Gould]

  jazzypaul said:

My biggest qualm is this: once we make the world series, all of the sports writers are going to say that we didn't earn it.  Much like 1918, we're going to have a black mark all over this world series appearance as well.

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My, we're a tad paranoid, aren't we?

What I have yet to hear is an explanation for why the umpire kept his call to himself. No one has said that he said anything like "no catch" and its as if, because the hitter ran to first, he decides then that it was a trap and the putout has to be made.

As Jim Caple writes on ESPN, the umpire is guilty of the most basic failure: The failure to state, for all to hear, what his call is.

And on top of that, the umpires are simply covering for themselves in claiming that there is any "change in direction" or that the video doesn't show they fucked up, because that is what it undoubtedly shows.

They ought to take a lesson from Don Denkinger (oops, now I've pissed off St. Louis fans) and not only fess up to their moment of failure, but frame a picture of that moment and hang it in their den, like Denkinger had the guts and integrity to do.

In the end, I agree that the game wasn't lost on that call. Heck, in an extra inning game at home, you have to favor the White Sox especially since they hadn't used the bullpen yet. But as mentioned above, it simply sucks that the game came down to a blown call on the field instead of being won/lost fair and square.

[J Larsen]

Besides the fact that the umpire appeared to initially call AJ out which should have ended the inning regardless of whether the ball was trapped, another point I haven't seen addressed is that AJ took a couple steps towards the dugout before he started running to first. After he steps out of the box and away from the basepath, isn't he out? It seems to me that he was out twice before he was safe.

[Evonce]

I just fired off a letter to Mark Kreidler, who has a "no replay in baseball" column on ESPN's site right now. The weak premise of his argument is that everyone's fallible and isn't that charming. My response is that the PLAYERS' foibles make the game what it is; the backdrop we need for their performances is objective judgement. No one is arguing that MLB umpires are, on the whole, overwhelmingly good at their thankless jobs. But there are times when the pride and tradition should be dropped - when a series victory stands or falls on a questionable call.

Yes, I am now convinced that limited replay (within certain parameters) is necessary, if only because all the unsolicited "Don't even think about it!" columns from sportswriters today use incredibly poor arguments, and someone needs to side with logic.

I realize that video replay would not have changed the massive gaffe from Eddings last night - who seemed to have reversed his own call to begin with - but since the indignant sports commentators have linked this to the whole replay issue, I know which side I'm taking.

[jazzypaul]

White Sox up 2-1 in the series.

Props to Konerko and Iguchi who rule.

And thanks to Ersted for getting greedy on that triple attempt.

There, now we won one fair and square. Everyone happy now?

[Noj]

Nope.

[Soulstation1]

The boss hasn't fired anyone, YET?

WTF is his problem?

[MartyJazz]

One thing I've noticed throughout these AL playoffs is that Orlando Cabrera is definitely performing a ton better than Edgar Renteria did when the Red Sox were alive. Knowing also that ER made quite a few errors during the regular season, how do the Red Sox fans here feel about letting OC go in order to pursue ER?

[Dan Gould]

  MartyJazz said:

One thing I've noticed throughout these AL playoffs is that Orlando Cabrera is definitely performing a ton better than Edgar Renteria did when the Red Sox were alive.  Knowing also that ER made quite a few errors during the regular season, how do the Red Sox fans here feel about letting OC go in order to pursue ER?

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Renteria's errors were indeed surprising, if not shocking. It did come out after the season was over that he played with lower back pain for at least the last month, and had tweaked his groin with two or so weeks to go. This coincides with a comment reported in September by some NL scouts that he "looks hurt". But that doesn't explain the earlier problems. Another disappointment was his inconsistent bat which started very slowly, picked up and then dropped off again. I believe his BA was about 8 points below his last year in St Louis and his power numbers were down too.

So yes, Renteria was definitely less than advertised, this year. Nevertheless, I expect that he will bounce back next year and perform much better.

The biggest reason why the Sox did not want Cabrera back was his approach at the plate. For a "moneyball" team that preaches patience, working counts, taking walks, and most of all, getting on base, Cabrera is completely unacceptable. The vast majority of the time, he is a rally killer, Mark Bellhorn without the compensatory ability to draw walks. Yes, he can get hot and come up with some very big hits. But over the course of a season, the cumulative impact of his batting style would have hurt the team far more often than it helped.

But no question, defensively, I dreamed many a day of Cabrera's smooth glove as I watched Renteria butcher a play that he used to make in his sleep.

My only fear is that the rumors may be true, and Renteria is actually 42, not 32.

Here are the stats, offensively:

BA:

Renteria .276

Cabrera .257

OBP:

Renteria .335

Cabrera .309

Slugging:

Renteria .385

Cabrera .365

Career OPS

Renteria .743

Cabrera .718

Career BA:

Renteria .288

Cabrera .267

The choice was obvious - even Cabrera acknowledged that Renteria is the superior shortstop. He just wasn't, defensively, this year!

[BERIGAN]

So...anyone else wondering where Peter Gammons is these days? I saw him a few days ago with a mike in his hand . He was on that baseball tonight for about 30 seconds...Did I miss hearing why he is not on the show every night???

[BERIGAN]

  Johnny E said:

I know from personal experience that Freddie Garcia is a head case that breaks under pressure.

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He Johhny, I guess Garcia is no A-Rod, eh?

[BERIGAN]

Who the fuck is this umpire anyway????Stupid bitch!!!!!

[Dan Gould]

What a difference a couple of weeks makes.

September 25, the White Sox are in free fall, the lead just 1 1/2 games. Then the Indian centerfielder loses the ball in the sun, the Indians lose and start an epic collapse, the White Sox right the ship and now by the time this night is over could be in the World Series.

[MartyJazz]

Congrats to the White Sox. Four straight complete games pitched!! What a wonderful reminder of how the game used to be played. The starting pitcher is doing a great job - leave him in!! The current predilection of being satisfied if a starter can give you six innings and "only" give up two or three runs, so that the manager can then go to his middle inning relief pitching specialist who is then supposed to set up the closer, sucks IMO. AFAIAC, too many variables can lead to too many unpredictable finishes.

In the meantime, WTF is wrong with the Cardinals? La Russa getting thrown out in a key game - not a good sign when a veteran manager does that.

Edited October 17, 2005 by MartyJazz

[tatifan]

  MartyJazz said:

In the meantime, WTF is wrong with the Cardinals?  La Russa getting thrown out in a key game - not a good sign when a veteran manager does that.

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Bye bye Cardinals. Hello world series for the Astros.

Having grown up near Philly watching the (mostly) phlailing Phils, I'm glad to see the even longer suffering Houston guys (my home for 15 years now) get closer to a chance at the big kahuna!

Seeing them k/o the Braves 2 years in a row was sweet enough, seeing the Braves beat up on the Phils in that division every year.... it's a bit harder to dislike the Cards w/o Scott Rolen playing (being a jilted Philly fan, you know). Sure was scary seeing Sanders hit the warning track with his head like that!

Seriously though, what was up with La Russa today??

[BERIGAN]

Yeah, La Russa shouldn't have gotten thrown out...but you know what??? A stupid, blind ump REALLY shouldn't toss a manager late in one run game, a one run PLAYOFF game. He was still in the dugout when he was tossed, right? Don't you toss managers when they get in your face, and don't get out of it?

Then the pissant tosses Edmonds on a 3-2 count! I am sure I have seen a player tossed before striking out, but I can't remember when. And during a motherfucking playoff game? Shit! Did it look like Edmonds was having a tantrum like Paul O'Neill often did? How much did he bet on Houston winning that game?