New Monk-Coltrane Performance Discovered

[ghost of miles]

What's the deal with VoA recordings? Can they be issued commercially? Do we tax payers "own" them? Did they help us win the cold war?

Tom,

Penny Eschen talks a bit about Conover and VOA in her new book SATCHMO BLOWS UP THE WORLD, which is all about the State Dpt.'s sponsorship of jazz tours during the Cold War. The VOA jazz programs evidently enjoyed a great popularity in postcolonial and Eastern bloc countries--much more so than some of the heavy propaganda we were also lobbing at the time.

[jazzbo]

Columbia seems to be putting the Miles out soon as part of a two cd "Legacy Edition" of "Round About Midnight."

[medjuck]

Columbia seems to be putting the Miles out soon as part of a two cd "Legacy Edition" of "Round About Midnight."

I think that's another recording with the first quintet. The 1955 Newport comeback was with a pick-up group that included Gerry Mulligan and Monk. The entire concert was available on a European cd but Round Midnight only was on a recently released Columbia Box entitled Happy Birthday Newport (or something like that). Since they have released the one song they should be able to obtain the rights to the rest of the set if they don't already have them.

(Then again Mulligan is not on Round Midnight so maybe they need to get rights from his estate for the numbers he play on. )

[Guy Berger]

Columbia seems to be putting the Miles out soon as part of a two cd "Legacy Edition" of "Round About Midnight."

Interesting that the group chose to perform only Monk tunes, given that he hadn't experienced the Riverside breakthrough yet. I remember listening to this and being somewhat disappointed after all the hype.

Hopefully the Miles performances from '66 and '67 will see an official release one day -- they're smokin'.

Guy

[jazzbo]

If I'm not mistaken Alan Lankin's site says that the Legacy Edition WILL include this. (PLUS a 1956 Pasadena show, a brief Gene Norman produced event, which is in killer sound and a great performance).

I wasn't disappointed when I first heard this on the "Miscellaneous Miles" cd. I didn't have big expectations, and it would have been a great set to see!

Edited April 6, 2005 by jazzbo

[jazzbo]

Hey, if it were me I would really try to have this come out on the Monk family's estate (the Coltrane tape). Think what juice that would give to their product line (which in my opinion is a very good product line now!)

[Dan Gould]

I'd just like to say that this discovery blows away my discovery of a couple of weeks ago.

[medjuck]

Lankin reports:

"disc two features Newport '55 performance of "Round Midnight" plus previously unreleased 1956 concert presented by producer Gene Norman at the Pasadena Civic Auditorium in Feb. 1956 with the lineup of Miles Davis, Philly Joe Jones, Paul Chambers, Red Garland and John Coltrane"

so I presumed that it has just the one number from'55. If not this, cd is really worth getting. On the other hand I'll probably get it anyway for the Pasadena concert. I admit that by the time I was able to hear the '55 Newport concert I really expected something amazing given what I'd read about it. I remember waiting with anticipation for the cd's arrival in the mail which seemed to take weeks. So I was a little disappointed. Listening to it now, however, I can see why it made such an impression. However, I also agree with Miles that he'd been playing that good for a year or so. Think of "Musings of Miles" or the December'54 date with Monk. But I'm not sure those were even released by the time of Newport. Anyone know?

BTW Guy: As well as Hackensack and Round midnight the group also performed Now's the Time-- so it wasn't an all Monk program.

[Michael Weiss]

If I'm not mistaken, the Carnegie Hall concert was produced by my old friend, Kenneth Lee Karpe, who passed away a year and a half ago. Kenny Karpe had a loft in the mid fifties at Park Avenue and 28th street which became a rehearsal space and hang out for a number of musicians - Oscar Pettiford and his big band, Thelonious, Tommy Flanagan, Cedar Walton, Max Roach and many others. Kenny was involved along with Jules Colomby with Signal Records. He also had some role later on in producing Ravi Shankar. Kenny was a fixture on the NY scene until he became ill a few years ago. He appears briefly in the film Straight No Chaser bumping into Monk on Amsterdam Ave.

[brownie]

Kenneth Lee Karpe did produce the concert.

There is a flyer for the event reproduced in Ken Vail's book 'Lady Day's Diary' that lists him as the man behind this.

Seats for the concerts were $2.00, 3.00, 3.50 and 3.95! 'Tax exempt contribution' to boot!

Pretty good deal

[brownie]

The Miles thing came out in Europe. . . not sure if it was "legitimate"--doubt it. . . Jazz Door I think.

Not sure what the deal is on these. There's potentially quite a bit of Newport material that they could have available, and maybe even more stereo "concoctions" might be possible like the Columbia Duke!

The Miles appearance at the 1955 Newport Festival was first released on the Jazz Unlimited CD 'Miscellaneous Davis, 1955-1957'. In very good sound. Complete with the introduction by Duke Ellington!

The Voice of America recorded the proceedings at the Newport Festivals since the first one in 1954. Don't know when they ceased recording at Newport but I remember - when I was still a teenager - listening to some of the broadcasts on long wave radio (low fi relays from the VOA station out of Tangiers!) when they were part of Willis Connover's jazz shows.

Hope those VOA tapes are also in the Library of Congress so that we can enjoy more treasures.

[king ubu]

WHOAAAAA!!!!

Just read this! What great news!

The bummer in here: Sony ripping us (who bought the expansive Miles/Trane Columbia box) off with that 2CD "deluxe" edition, instead of just releasing all the live stuff of the band in a 2CD or (ir required) 3CD set.

ubu

[Christiern]

John S. Wilson did not mention Coltrane in his Nov. 30, 1957 NYT review.

[JSngry]

The Thelonious Monk Quartet with John Coltrane on tenor appeared at a Carnegie Hall double concert on Thanksgiving Day November 29, 1957. Concerts at 8.30PM and Midnight.

The concerts which were a benefit for the Morningside Community Center were MCed by Willis Conover and taped for the Voice of America. Ahmed Abdul Malik and Shadow Wilson were also in the Monk Quartet.

So, this puts us closer to the actual 1957 Five Spot quartet than any known recording, right?

A few months earlier, we'd have Wilbur Ware on bass, and wouldn't that be special!

I'd think that in a right world, this would be major news...

[minew]

I'd think that in a right world, this would be major news...

In THIS world, it is. Which is why we all choose to live here as often as we can.

[brownie]

I'd think that in a right world, this would be major news...

The fact that the AP story headlined the Monk-Coltrane tape discovery up front shows things have improved. I have worked in the past with Carl Hartman who bylined the story. He is a good writer with limited knowledge of jazz but with enough sense of what's important and did not miss pointing out the find and started his story with it.

I was at AP when the news of John Coltrane's death appeared on the teleprinters (that was in 1967, long before the arrival of computers in the newsrooms). The story was a mere fifteen line one. I still have a copy somewhere.

And it did not make much news in the newspapers the following day. In France at least. Not sure it made any frontpages anywhere!

Edited April 6, 2005 by brownie

[l p]

I recall reading many years ago J.C. Thomas' biog of Trane - I think it was the first one done of Trane - wherein the author discusses a late '60s scheduled double bill of Monk and Trane. In any event, Trane's sidemen - this was the Pharoah edition, I believe - were late showing up (if they did at all) due to inclement weather. As a result Trane sat in with Monk.

i believe that this was detroit 66 or 67. and would be more interesting to me than 1957 because it's late period coltrane meets monk.

there is 15min of an mp3 of unissued monk/coltrane on the official monk site.

http://www.monkzone.com/monkzone.htm

webcasts

THELONIOUS PLAYING NUTTY AND RUBY, MY DEAR WITH JOHN COLTRANE

this is probably five spot 57/58.

[medjuck]

I'm listening to the Monk/Coltrane from the Monk Zone right now. Wow! Thanks for pointing it out. The whole page is full of interesting stuff. The only thing I know of that compares to this is the performances page on bobdylan.com.

[Chuck Nessa]

1) Willis Conover intro 1:39

2) Monk's Mood (mostly a duet) 7:43

3) Evidence 4:41

4) Crepescule With Nellie 4:24

5) Nutty 5:07

6) Epistrophy 4:27

7) outro 0:15

1) Willis Conover intro 1:40

2) Bye-Ya 6:15

3) Sweet and Lovely 9:34

4) Blue Monk 6:31

5) Epistrophy 2:30 (incomplete)

[Joe M]

Fascinating! This will come out, you can be sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if it takes a few years, due to issues with the estate.

[bertrand]

I doubt the estates will put up too many hurdles in this case. Of course, I'm thinking of the Coltrane/Monk estates. Who knows about the Malik/Wilson end of the deal (they need to be consulted too).

Bertrand.

[JSngry]

1) Willis Conover intro 1:39

2) Monk's Mood (mostly a duet) 7:43

3) Evidence 4:41

4) Crepescule With Nellie 4:24

5) Nutty 5:07

6) Epistrophy 4:27

7) outro 0:15

1) Willis Conover intro 1:40

2) Bye-Ya 6:15

3) Sweet and Lovely 9:34

4) Blue Monk 6:31

5) Epistrophy 2:30 (incomplete)

Sweet!

Chuck, are you at liberty to divulge your source of this information?

[John L]

[bertrand]

Jim,

Chuck just read it off the tape that he keeps in the basement

Bertrand.

[ghost of miles]

1) Willis Conover intro 1:39

2) Monk's Mood (mostly a duet) 7:43

3) Evidence 4:41

4) Crepescule With Nellie 4:24

5) Nutty 5:07

6) Epistrophy 4:27

7) outro 0:15

1) Willis Conover intro 1:40

2) Bye-Ya 6:15

3) Sweet and Lovely 9:34

4) Blue Monk 6:31

5) Epistrophy 2:30 (incomplete)

Sweet!

Chuck, are you at liberty to divulge your source of this information?

He might've gotten it from the Coltrane list--it was posted there from "another" list. Also this message from Larry Appelbaum:

I've been holding off announcing this until LC was ready, but I

recently discovered some unpublished, previously unknown tapes at the

Library of Congress of the Thelonious Monk Quartet with John Coltrane at Carnegie Hall on Nov. 29, 1957. The tapes were recorded by the

Voice of America during a benefit concert at Carnegie Hall. The

evening consisted of an early and late show and the Monk Quartet

tapes total approx 55 mins. The quartet includes Ahmed Abdul Malik, bass;

and Shadow Wilson, drums. Other artists on this concert include the

Sonny Rollins Trio w/Wendell Marshall and Kenny Dennis, The Zoot Sims

Quartet w/Chet Baker, the Dizzy Gillespie Orchestra, and Ray Charles

(w/Ed Blackwell, drums!). Billie Holiday was reportedly also on this

concert, but she does not appear to have been recorded.

For those interested in such things, we have preserved these tapes by

making high resolution digital files with appropriate metadata.

Anticipating your questions, LC can not make any copies unless proper

copyright clearances have been secured. I have informed both T.S.

Monk and Ravi Coltrane about these tapes.

This reminds us, there's always more.

Larry Appelbaum