PM Records...

[Guest akanalog]

i see PM records is online and you can order CDs and MP3s from them. the CDs seem ridiculously exensive so i am tempted to get a few albums in MP3 format (160 KBPs-i think this is pretty close to usual CD quality-it is still lame i am sure)

elvin jones "on the mountain" is one of my favorite albums. could anyone recommend what else to check out in this vein (electric instruments, perhaps a little rock sensibility-but not full on fusion)? the grossmans and stone alliance albums look promising and perhaps the open sky unit stuff? the other material is all pretty unfamiliar to me though-bernie semesky, for instance?

[JSngry]

The Grossman stuff is totally gonzo - over the top and adrenelin (or something else...) charged. Subtlety goes out the window, and that ususally bugs me to no end. It kind of does here as well, but not always, and not too much.

[Guest akanalog]

The Grossman stuff is totally gonzo - over the top and adrenelin (or something else...) charged. Subtlety goes out the window, and that ususally bugs me to no end. It kind of does here as well, but not always, and not too much.

what is the "it" you refer to. you mean you dont usually like grossman? neither do i. but i do like hammer, perla and alias so thought this must be ok. there is a lot of grossman squealing?

[Claude]

i see PM records is online and you can order CDs and MP3s from them.  the CDs seem ridiculously exensive so i am tempted to get a few albums in MP3 format (160 KBPs-i think this is pretty close to usual CD quality-it is still lame i am sure)

You forgot the LPs

The price is also rather high ($15), but many vinyl fans will be delighted that these are available on LP at all.

What is a "custom CD"? ($20) Is it a CD-R?

http://www.pmrecords.org

Edited March 30, 2005 by Claude

[JSngry]

There's a lot of Grossman doing the Hyper Trane thing, which I usually don't like either. But he does it so damn sincerely and forcefully that I end up liking it against my better judgement.

[Guest akanalog]

so any particulalr albums you would recommend with that in mind? i didn't realize stone alliance had so many albums..

[Claude]

The Open Sky (Dave Liebman trio) albums are very good.

[Adam]

i see PM records is online and you can order CDs and MP3s from them.  the CDs seem ridiculously exensive so i am tempted to get a few albums in MP3 format (160 KBPs-i think this is pretty close to usual CD quality-it is still lame i am sure)

You forgot the LPs

The price is also rather high ($15), but many vinyl fans will be delighted that these are available on LP at all.

What is a "custom CD"? ($20) Is it a CD-R?

http://www.pmrecords.org

"Custom CD" probably is a CD-R in the model of Smithsonian Folkways. Did you know that all albums from Smithsonian Folkways (or perhaps it's all from a particular collection - Ashe? Lomax? It's still a lot) have to be available, as part of the terms of the donation? But Smithsonian doesn't keep them all in print. If you want some old LP for which a CD doesn't exist, you can order a custom CD made, with liner notes, for $20.

[JSngry]

For Grossman, I'd reccomend Some Shapes To Come & Terra Firma.

[mikeweil]

so any particular albums you would recommend with that in mind? i didn't realize stone alliance had so many albums..

The first Stone Alliance is a raw thing, just Grossman, Perla, and Alias (overdubbing congas on some tracks), and representative of how they sounded live. Jim Sangreys description of Grossman squealing is accurate, but I have to admit I like it much better when he does it than with anybody else ...

The nest two are collaborations with Brazilian or Argentinian musicians, and IMHO are masterpieces in Latin fusion music. Nice tunes, energetic joyful playing - I wouldn't part with these under any circumstances. The one with Marcio Montarroyos invloves some overdubbing, but it stays organic.

The fourth is closer to a standard fusion album than anything they did, but still nice.

Kenny Kirkland is on it. Saw that band live, too.

The Grossman LPs are very raw, but I dig em - the Jeremy Steig LPs with Hammer, Perla and Alias are the closest comparison, but, as Jim said, with a totally gonzo (positive, to me) tenor player. Their sound quality is not so great, so MP3s would do in this case.

The Open Sky LPs are free form, sometimes lacking a bit of direction, to these ears.

That Doug Riley album is a minor gem, IMHO.

And PM promoted Ed Bickert and Don Thompson - I think I had all of their albums at one point.

[JSngry]

Yeah, gonzo is good in this case.

[marcello]

There is also: Elvin Jones - "On the Mountian" with Gene Perla and Jan Hammer, that I have on vinyl. Very good contemporary Elvin.

Elvin Jones, drums; Jan Hammer, piano, Fender Rhodes, Moog; Gene Perla, acoustic bass, electric bass

Tracklist:

1. Thorn of a White Rose — 5:07

2. Namuh — 7:47

3. On the Mountain — 4:37

4. Smoke in the Sun — 4:00

5. London Air — 5:29

6. Destiny — 7:28

[Guest akanalog]

There is also: Elvin Jones - "On the Mountian" with Gene Perla and Jan Hammer, that I have on vinyl. Very good contemporary Elvin.

Elvin Jones, drums; Jan Hammer, piano, Fender Rhodes, Moog; Gene Perla, acoustic bass, electric bass

Tracklist:

1. Thorn of a White Rose — 5:07

2. Namuh — 7:47

3. On the Mountain — 4:37

4. Smoke in the Sun — 4:00

5. London Air — 5:29

6. Destiny — 7:28

like i said, that is the one PM album i have and it is one of my favorites. i was looking for more music in this vein.

[Chuck Nessa]

the CDs seem ridiculously exensive

Please 'splain this to me. Do you know the costs? Can you write a budget that makes the discs cheaper? I want to know.

[mikeweil]

There is also: Elvin Jones - "On the Mountian" with Gene Perla and Jan Hammer, that I have on vinyl. Very good contemporary Elvin.

Elvin Jones, drums; Jan Hammer, piano, Fender Rhodes, Moog; Gene Perla, acoustic bass, electric bass

Tracklist:

1.  Thorn of a White Rose — 5:07

2.  Namuh — 7:47

3.  On the Mountain — 4:37

4.  Smoke in the Sun — 4:00

5.  London Air — 5:29

6.  Destiny — 7:28

like i said, that is the one PM album i have and it is one of my favorites. i was looking for more music in this vein.

I'm afraid this is one of a kind - the closest is found on the Mosaic Blue Note Elvin, but with horns and percussion added.

[kdd]

the CDs seem ridiculously exensive

Please 'splain this to me. Do you know the costs? Can you write a budget that makes the discs cheaper? I want to know.

$20 a copy to re-issue a CD of material you own? What costs are you talking about re-mastering? New artwork? Pressing 1,000 copies. So $3,000-$4,000. Please, give me a break.

[Chuck Nessa]

the CDs seem ridiculously exensive

Please 'splain this to me. Do you know the costs? Can you write a budget that makes the discs cheaper? I want to know.

$20 a copy to re-issue a CD of material you own? What costs are you talking about re-mastering? New artwork? Pressing 1,000 copies. So $3,000-$4,000. Please, give me a break.

The price I see for a finished cd is $15. Please (as I asked before) write a budget and don't forget to include a realistic estimation of sales along with some sort of timeframe so we can see the return on investment.

[Guest akanalog]

the CDs seem ridiculously exensive

Please 'splain this to me. Do you know the costs? Can you write a budget that makes the discs cheaper? I want to know.

i would imagine, mr. nessa, that PM could figure out a way to price their CDs in line with the prices of every other CD available for purchase rather than a fair amount higher.

[Chuck Nessa]

Look again.

Write a budget.

[Guest akanalog]

i should say in line with the prices of other independent domestic jazz labels. since these albums were recorded years ago and there isn't much going into fancy packaging and the CDs are produced on demand, i would imagine costs are not so high. i could produce a good copy of elvin jones on the mountain were you to demand it using my CD burner and color printer for a total cost of about $1.50. include shipping we might be talking $3.00. $20.00 seems pretty high.

[Guest akanalog]

rather than me showing you, why don't you show me since you know so much more than me.

[Chuck Nessa]

The asking price for the Jones is $15.

Please write a budget - guess, since you seem to doubt my info.

Artwork cost

Film/transfer cost

proof cost

printing cost (how many do you print at what unit cost?)

ship printing to pressing plant cost

remixing/editing cost

remix/editing proof

mastering cost

mastering proof

shipping master to pp cost

pressing cost

jewel box/assembly/wrap cost

shipping to your warehouse cost

publishing royalty cost

artist royalty cost

Now that you have done that, please bill us for your time facilitating all the above, warehouse space, website cost, etc.

Please give me a unit cost.

Edited March 31, 2005 by Chuck Nessa

[Guest akanalog]

you chose the one CD on the site which is priced at 15 rather than 20 dollars. i think the reason for this is that it is the only CD sold in stores occassionally. all the other discs i have seen are 20.

i have no idea what the budget would be. the CDs are made on demand so it isn't like they need to sell a certain amount to make the money back. i would imagine with whatever budgetary costs are thrown on, PM makes at least 10 bucks on each of these CDs. there are no recording costs and the owner of the label is also the musician so it seems like the money is going right to the owners. and it doesn't seem like a team of people would be needed to put out this product since it is on demand. i would imagine the demand for these discs is about 3 a day. mr. perla could probably burn the CDs and print out the labels while watching a movie or taking a dump and do it all in under 30 minutes. so again-20 bucks seems high for this product.

[Guest akanalog]

i dont even know what i am writing a budget for. what budget? the CDs are made on demand. the CDs only exist if you ask for them. the budget for copying a CD and printing the packaging and mailing the CD for a CD full of music you own would seem to be to be under 5 bucks.

[John Tapscott]

bernie semesky, for instance?

Actually, his name is Bernie Senensky - don't worry, lots of people seem to get an "m" in there. Stylistically Bernie is a modern mainstream pianist - roughly from Red Garland on the one side to Tyner on the other, and mostly somewhere in between. Some Bill Evans and Herbie Hancock influences. He's a very fine player, if not particualry original. I believe the PM disc is called "New Life" and has Michel Donato on bass and Marty Morell on drums - a pretty good fit for Bernie. It's a decent record though I haven't played it for a long time. Senensky was the house pianist for years at Torooto's now defunct Bourbpn Street club and backed a wide range of American soloists - Art Farmer, Art Pepper, Bill Watrous, Pepper Adams, Al Cohn, Zoot Sims etc. etc.