The Gasoline Blues

[Tim McG]

There are some stations here in SF that are already charging $5/gal for premium.

Should have my new Prius within a couple of weeks (on a wait list ...).

Can't wait.

Cool, Brooks.

My buddy who lived in SF [now New Zealand] told me his Prius got 40 mpg in The City.

[BeBop]

Last time I visited my friend in the Oakland/Berkeley area, we counted cars on the two-mile drive from the shopping area to her house. One in four was a Prius. And there were other Hybrids and electrics too. Five years ago, it was SUVs.

[Tim McG]

We're not 'singing different songs' here. It's supply and demand, an equation that makes profits (and losses) possible.

To grossly simplify, if no one wanted gas, or if it was available in unlimited quantity, it would be free.

You say "greed"; I say (possible) supply manipulation; potato/potahto.

Right.

That $18 Million is free and clear profit, BeBop. That means after all their expenses are paid.

Possible? Dig deep into your Thesaurus, BeBop.

see also;

probable

likely

obvious

I can't believe you said that

OMG

Edited June 30, 2008 by GoodSpeak

[Joe G]

Well, again, if your product is moving 86 MILLION A DAY, you'd expect a hefty profit, no?

[Joe G]

Or to put it another way, how much profit would be acceptable to you?

I'm not defending Big Oil. Just trying to make the point that it's not their greed and their's alone which has led us to this point.

[sidewinder]

Currently getting about 40-45 mpg in my sports coupe driving like a grandad at 55-60mph but the urge to put the foot hard down, kick in the turbo and leave the chav astra vans for toast is killing me !

Edited June 30, 2008 by sidewinder

[BeBop]

Or to put it another way, how much profit would be acceptable to you?

I'm not defending Big Oil. Just trying to make the point that it's not their greed and their's alone which has led us to this point.

And, of course, if you own a mutual fund, or have a bank deposit, their profit is (highly likely) your profit too.

[Soulstation1]

a buddy just purchased a 1979 bio diesel mercedes for $4K

[Jim Alfredson]

My mother-in-law just got a Prius.

[clifford_thornton]

Currently getting about 40-45 mpg in my sports coupe driving like a grandad at 55-60mph but the urge to put the foot hard down, kick in the turbo and leave the chav astra vans for toast is killing me !

Yeah, gotta watch those chavvy sorts...

[AndrewHill]

$3.95 tonight.

[Tim McG]

Or to put it another way, how much profit would be acceptable to you?

I'm not defending Big Oil. Just trying to make the point that it's not their greed and their's alone which has led us to this point.

I understand.

IMHO, I think if the oil companies made $100 Million clear profit every quarter nobody would care....but $18 BILLION? And every four months? That's just plain obscene, Joe.

That whole "what the market will bear" routine is just another way of justifying greed. The so-called "invisible hand of the marketplace" is morally corrupt and ethically bankrupt. This is a money suck in the cynical category of a grab all you can while you can philosophy.

There simply is no justification for charging upwards of $4 bucks a gallon. Personally, I think it all comes down to motive [they want our coastlines and Alaska] and an oilman president who is allowing them to squeeze us all until we say yes to their drilling demands. Pure and simple.

Edited July 1, 2008 by GoodSpeak

[Chuck Nessa]

I DO NOT believe supply and demand is driving the prices up. I believe it is the "traders" much like the Enron crap. Did anyone watch the congressional hearings? 65% of the oil is bought by folks unable to take delivery!!!!!

"Fuck the world, make a buck" is the mantra.

[Joe G]

I believe supply and demand is tied in with the other not-so-funny business. Though I certainly admit to a limited knowledge.

[Chuck Nessa]

Learn more.

[Joe G]

I've read an awful lot about the peak oil phenomenon, and what I've learned has convinced me that a continued cheap supply of oil is, as of 2006, no longer certain. To date, he world has not matched the production capacity of that year. This is due to actual on-the-ground causes (the crashing of several supergiant fields, political instability and violence, and countries keeping more of their decreasing production for their own populations and thus exporting less), and not simply greed. A report put out last year, subsequently buried, by the Dept of Energy confirmed as much. Combine those rather poor prospects with the whole mortgage crises (and they are related), and you're going to get some serious madness in the financial sector; like people doing everything they can to fuck the world to make a buck. Nothing new there, though.

[BeBop]

I DO NOT believe supply and demand is driving the prices up. I believe it is the "traders" much like the Enron crap. Did anyone watch the congressional hearings? 65% of the oil is bought by folks unable to take delivery!!!!!

"Fuck the world, make a buck" is the mantra.

Commodities futures markets - I assume that's what you're talking about - have never operated on the assumption that traders would take physical delivery. But yes, speculation can influence price. It's the same thing that causes 'bubbles' whether tulips* or natural gas.

* Perhaps the most famous of speculative bubbles in history.

[Chuck Nessa]

I DO NOT believe supply and demand is driving the prices up. I believe it is the "traders" much like the Enron crap. Did anyone watch the congressional hearings? 65% of the oil is bought by folks unable to take delivery!!!!!

"Fuck the world, make a buck" is the mantra.

Commodities futures markets - I assume that's what you're talking about - have never operated on the assumption that traders would take physical delivery. But yes, speculation can influence price. It's the same thing that causes 'bubbles' whether tulips* or natural gas.

* Perhaps the most famous of speculative bubbles in history.

Correct!

[Tim McG]

I DO NOT believe supply and demand is driving the prices up. I believe it is the "traders" much like the Enron crap. Did anyone watch the congressional hearings? 65% of the oil is bought by folks unable to take delivery!!!!!

"Fuck the world, make a buck" is the mantra.

Indeed.

But the bottom line is greed.

No more, no less.

[Tim McG]

I DO NOT believe supply and demand is driving the prices up. I believe it is the "traders" much like the Enron crap. Did anyone watch the congressional hearings? 65% of the oil is bought by folks unable to take delivery!!!!!

"Fuck the world, make a buck" is the mantra.

Commodities futures markets - I assume that's what you're talking about - have never operated on the assumption that traders would take physical delivery. But yes, speculation can influence price. It's the same thing that causes 'bubbles' whether tulips* or natural gas.

* Perhaps the most famous of speculative bubbles in history.

Correct!

Oh, c'mon.

The oil companies are taking full advantage and it has little to do with outside influences.

Why, then, can't they charge $2 bucks a gallon instead?

Answer: Because they know they can get away with unchallenged price gouging right now given today's market climate and a pinhead oilman for a president.

[Aggie87]

There's a whole lot of middle men that make a living on that gallon of gas you pump - from the convenience store clerk to the delivery truck driver to the distributors to the refineries, engineers, and so on. It's not *ALL* profit that goes into some huge faceless corporation's coffer.

That said, I think prices should be $2/gallon or under myself. It just ain't gonna happen when the cost of a barrel of oil coming into the country is so high.

[Tim McG]

There's a whole lot of middle men that make a living on that gallon of gas you pump - from the convenience store clerk to the delivery truck driver to the distributors to the refineries, engineers, and so on. It's not *ALL* profit that goes into some huge faceless corporation's coffer.

That said, I think prices should be $2/gallon or under myself. It just ain't gonna happen when the cost of a barrel of oil coming into the country is so high.

The problem is the cost per barrel simply does not translate to 20 and 50 cent price spikes at the pump. Secondly, how can the oil companies justify that price hike on oil already refined and in the underground tanks at the gas station? The hike in price should come after the higher priced oil has been refined then shipped out for consumption.

In effect, we are paying in advance for price increases not yet realized by the refineries.

As to profit, that $18 Billion dollar figure is based upon free and clear profit, Aggie. That means money left over after everybody has been paid off and services have been rendered. The oil companies are making themselves and their stockholders multi-millionaires while we all suffer for it.

That is just plain greed. Make no mistake.

Edited July 1, 2008 by GoodSpeak

[Joe G]

So NONE of the issues I posted above are real to you? And you have no regrets about the way of life in this country that has resulted from a century of cheap oil - one that is in danger of collapse if the price of gas rises a couple of bucks?

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

So NONE of the issues I posted above are real to you? And you have no regrets about the way of life in this country that has resulted from a century of cheap oil - one that is in danger of collapse if the price of gas rises a couple of bucks?

You can't have it both ways in one sentence, Joe. You can't say, "we have a crappy lifestyle" and regret its passing.

MG

[Joe G]

So NONE of the issues I posted above are real to you? And you have no regrets about the way of life in this country that has resulted from a century of cheap oil - one that is in danger of collapse if the price of gas rises a couple of bucks?

You can't have it both ways in one sentence, Joe. You can't say, "we have a crappy lifestyle" and regret its passing.

MG

That's not what I meant. The regret would be for the fact that we've allowed it to be set up in such a way that it is so vunerable to price fluctuations.