dug Posted June 17, 2003 Report Posted June 17, 2003 The Jazz<ma>tazz site lists a September 23rd release date on Columbia/Legacy of a 4 disc set of the Count Basie Orchestra. The description: NEW Count Basie & his Orchestra America's # 1 Band - 4 CDs (Columbia/Legacy) Sept 23 — prime Basie from the '30s, '40s & '50s — features nearly a full disc of unreleased material Does anyone know any more details about this. It certainly sounds like good news. Quote
Guest Mnytime Posted June 17, 2003 Report Posted June 17, 2003 (edited) Looks like a comp of some sort. Though I really have no idea for sure at this time. One thing is for sure. If it isn't a comp I am all over it. I have no Basie Columbia recordings. Yes I know. But at one time they where supposed to be working on a Box and I put off getting anything so not to duplicate anything. Now it's more of waiting hoping they do release something. Edited June 17, 2003 by Mnytime Quote
P.D. Posted June 17, 2003 Report Posted June 17, 2003 (edited) We did this before on AAJ,I think, debating the potential of a Mosaic.. can't find the thread.... This will not be a comp Basie recorded about 179 tracks for Columbia Starting with the 4 Jones / Smith recordings in1936 ( there is one extra take of Shoe Shine Boy in existence) The number takes into consideration the three double length tracks World is Mad Miss Thing King Joe Counted as 2 tracks each as they were double sided 78 rpms Also includes the small group All American Rhythm Section tracks..8 small group recordings from 42 and the Octet from 1950 The masters filled up 6 x 2lp sets on French Columbia I believe the complete output with all alternates was about 20 lps !2 lps roughly speaking is about 240 mins of musicc, about 3CDs by current standards. 4 Cds should therefore be a fairly complete set.. depending on what they mean by " unissued" as all alternates etc were in the French 20 lp set The music is of course all currently available complete on Classics... with the alternates on Neatwork. It will be interesting to see if they really do have some new , never before releaesed material, but I'm betting that means, never before in the USA All the Alts. featuring Pres were released in the 5 x 2lp Pres sets that Columbia put out a few years back. Wonder if it's going to be in a " Billie type Box"... hope not. Edited June 17, 2003 by P.D. Quote
Guest Mnytime Posted June 17, 2003 Report Posted June 17, 2003 I remember the thread you are talking about. Though I am not sure how you are sure this is not a comp? Also how you figure this will be complete since as you point out this was a 20lp 179 track release at one time? That's more than 4CDs worth of music. Also, you never know what they might have found since the 20lp release came out. Quote
P.D. Posted June 17, 2003 Report Posted June 17, 2003 (edited) Well it depends what you call a comp. A compilation to me is when they take bits from different recording sessions and throw them together. More prevalent in the LP era where bits of different LPs were put together on one other LP or now CD, in such a way that you never got any of the whole albums Thes Basies were recirdedjust before and into the LP era, but most were recorded as single 78 rpm releases Basies complete Columbia output of Master takes would fit just about 3 CDs.. a little more It wouldn't be a comp because you'ld get his whole Columbia output by title If you remember the thread, there would be no titles missing, just alternates.. of which a lot were Earle Warren vocals that We, at least I can do without. Actually a quick look at what was on the 20 Lp ( 2x 10 LP boxes ) shows that Warren didn't sing that much, but a lot of the extra takes are indeed vocals by Rushing and Humes. I would be more tempted to buy this if indeed it did have all the alts, but as long as they include those with Pres, they will be worthwhile, especially if you don't have this material already. Isuspect the "new unissued" material will all be alts that haven't been issued in the USA. Like to mnake a bet we got a long time to wait. Edited June 17, 2003 by P.D. Quote
DrJ Posted June 17, 2003 Report Posted June 17, 2003 This is good news, I had wondered if their plan was still in place for this box. I suspect PD is right, we'll get all the master takes, some salient alternates (although I'm sure there will be quibbles about what is left out) and probably nothing truly "new" (just unissued on CD in the U.S. more likely). Sounds GOOD to me. Quote
Chuck Nessa Posted June 17, 2003 Report Posted June 17, 2003 Just to clear some confusion here - The master takes from 1936-51 would take at least 7 cds with 25/26 tracks per disc. Quote
P.D. Posted June 17, 2003 Report Posted June 17, 2003 how do you count that???? there are about 179 Masters as qualified in my post( might have mis counted but only by one or two. This is the Columbia set.. not a mix of Columbia ( smith Jones ) Decca / Columbia / RCA / Columbia that indeed would fill about 7 CDs Quote
Kevin Bresnahan Posted June 17, 2003 Report Posted June 17, 2003 A simple math equation seems to indicate that 179 tracks would be a hell of a lot more than 4 CDs. Even assuming an average length of 2 minutes and factoring the CD mediums "max playing time" of 80 minutes, you get 4.475 CDs. I cannot imagine these tracks would average 2 minutes... not with late 40's/early 50's stuff in there. I bet it would average out nearly 3 minutes per track which would put the CD count up to 6.7 CDs, much more in line with Chuck's estimate. Later, Kevin Quote
JSngry Posted June 17, 2003 Report Posted June 17, 2003 (edited) !2 lps roughly speaking is about 240 mins of musicc, about 3CDs by current standards. Figuring a mean of about 20 minutes per side, that's more like 12 LP sides, or 6 LPs total. So the idea of a Mosaic set is still desirable for those who want it all. Hell, a straight reissue of the early 70s 2-LP SUPER CHIEF, complete w/original liner notes, wouldn't be too bad as an introductory package. That was a damn fine set. Edited June 17, 2003 by JSngry Quote
P.D. Posted June 17, 2003 Report Posted June 17, 2003 OOPs you are correct I was counting from the lp set and forgot there were two sides to an LP ( 12 x 25 mins should have been 24) So mucch of the one sided CD era ... In that case.. why the alts???? Quote
P.D. Posted June 17, 2003 Report Posted June 17, 2003 Got you jumping up and down I though..... Jim's take on SuperChief I'd go for the Lester Young story double Lp sets on CD ( that's 10 LPs total Couw) Would duplicate the Billie tracks but those Pres alts are well worth having. Quote
John L Posted June 17, 2003 Report Posted June 17, 2003 (edited) I'd go for the Lester Young story double Lp sets on CD ( that's 10 LPs total Couw) Would duplicate the Billie tracks but those Pres alts are well worth having. The Lester Young Story would be worth it just for Michael Brooks' excellent and thoughtful liner notes. Edited June 17, 2003 by John L Quote
J.A.W. Posted June 17, 2003 Report Posted June 17, 2003 AAARRrrrrrrRRRgghhhHHHH!!! stop it please! 20 LPs, 5 2LPs, 3CDs, 7CDs, 12x24 mins, 4,475(sic!) CDs, 179 tracks, 6 2LPs, .... There seem to be a lot of maths geniuses on this board... Quote
JSngry Posted June 17, 2003 Report Posted June 17, 2003 Got you jumping up and down I though..... Jim's take on SuperChief I'd go for the Lester Young story double Lp sets on CD I'm one set short on that Prez series, but it's just a matter of time... :D But SUPER CHIEF is a better overview of the "world" of Basie in thise days though, I think. OTOH, used LPs are cheap enough (in the right palces) that having BOTH would be recommended! But the liner notes to SUPER CHIEF alone should be reissued - lots of pithy quotes from Jo Jones. I especially love this one about the Prez/Glenn Hardman/Lee Castle date: Buck got a streetcar and followed some chick to the stockyards to get a piece of tail. "Start without me." We used the first trumpet player from Tommy Dorsey's band. He'd been out all night and turned up drunk and with a split lip. Some chick's husband had come in, hit him across the hand with a .45 and he jumped from a second story window. So he was pretty mussed up. Played OK, though." Beat THAT, Stanley Crouch! :D Quote
Guest Mnytime Posted June 17, 2003 Report Posted June 17, 2003 (edited) OOPs you are correct I was counting from the lp set and forgot there were two sides to an LP ( 12 x 25 mins should have been 24) So mucch of the one sided CD era ... In that case.. why the alts???? I knew there was no way they where going to get all that material on 4CDS. You're just lucky that I didn't take advantage of you and take your bet. This than appears to be a smaller set than they where considering when my fiancée was still at Sony. They where planning a complete set. Edited June 17, 2003 by Mnytime Quote
pryan Posted June 17, 2003 Report Posted June 17, 2003 This than appears to be a smaller set than they where considering when my fiancée was still at Sony. They where planning a complete set. And where were they planning this set? In a secret cave, I bet. Quote
P.D. Posted June 17, 2003 Report Posted June 17, 2003 Being a Gentleman, though obviously not much of a scholar where math is concerned still would have paid up.. but the bet part was more on the unissued front. it is conceivable that there may be some never issued titles in the basement, but I doubt it. So this is off my list for now. Quote
Guest Mnytime Posted June 17, 2003 Report Posted June 17, 2003 (edited) This than appears to be a smaller set than they where considering when my fiancée was still at Sony. They where planning a complete set. And where were they planning this set? In a secret cave, I bet. I am really sick and tired of anal-retentive people like you who have nothing better to do than tease or mock people over typos. When you take up Arabic and become anywhere near to proficient in it than get back to me on typos or misspellings. Edited June 17, 2003 by Mnytime Quote
J.A.W. Posted June 17, 2003 Report Posted June 17, 2003 This than appears to be a smaller set than they where considering when my fiancée was still at Sony. They where planning a complete set. And where were they planning this set? In a secret cave, I bet. C'mon, pryan, is this really necessary? Quote
pryan Posted June 17, 2003 Report Posted June 17, 2003 No need to get defensive here lads. I was just having a little fun, you know joking around a bit. Kinda like that Japanese "r and l" thread that weizen started. I didn't see any massive uproar on that thread, and don't really understand it here either. If you're still upset about my comments, Mnytime, then please accept my apologies. And I defenitely wouldn't describe myself as "anal retentive", either. Someone could start a "French-only" thread (no, not in the politics forum B) ) and make fun of my grammar and I wouldn't mind a bit. How's that old saying go, "You wouldn't tease the person if you didn't like them", or something like that. Quote
Brad Posted June 17, 2003 Report Posted June 17, 2003 Getting back to the original point, even if it's a comp, I'll get this. I have a 2 cd set that Sony put out in Japan a while back so I'd probably dump that. There's also a 10 cd set that Past Perfect put out a couple of years ago. Because their discography is not the best, it's hard to tell if it's all Columbia. Even if not, you'd have to expect that the Sony sound will be better (you'd hope so anyway). Quote
Stan C Posted June 20, 2003 Report Posted June 20, 2003 There is already an advance promo copy of the Basie Columbia 4 CD set on eBay. It has to be a compilation with 89 tracks. I guess it's greatest selling point is the almost 1 CD worth of unreleased tracks. I was wishing for a complete Count Basie Columbia set. Quote
jazzbo Posted June 25, 2003 Report Posted June 25, 2003 (edited) Several weeks ago I had emailed Columbia/Legacy, then forgotten about it, and this morning I received this reply: The rumors are correct. A 4CD collection of the bands materials ranging from 1936-'50, including several editions of the band in numerous configurations along with cameo's on disc 4. You will see that no corners were cut and that the very soul of the music shines. Look for a release in September. Edited June 25, 2003 by jazzbo Quote
Tjazz Posted June 25, 2003 Report Posted June 25, 2003 How does this compare to the DEFINITIVE 3-CD set that's out on the market? Quote
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