Most over-praised musician

[Guest Mnytime]

From this list I went with Zorn. Outside of The Big Gundown and his Masada stuff and Sonny Clark tributes I don't care for most of the rest. And I have problems with his S&M picture of underage girls.

Dan

While I agree Steve Reynolds does go overboard in his praise of musicians Thomas Chapin was incredible. IMHO

Since I don't go to the JC anymore I wonder if Steve is still changing his favorite musician, group on a daily basis in some cases hourly?

Edited June 16, 2003 by Mnytime

[Joe G]

On that point, how many people could really be "sick of hearing about" the vast majority of artists on the Leo label? Or should I ask, how many people have even heard of the vast majority of artists on the Leo label?

This is the first I've heard of the label itself!

[davef]

Kenny G - for any praise at all. He is not jazz, and he fools people into thinking he is.

[Guest Mnytime]

Leo is an excellent label with many great recordings. It appears they have remodled their online site.

http://www.leorecords.com/

[Cali]

Considering how hard it is to play jazz - NO musician is overrated in comparison to main stream artists.

What EBrew said.

Edited June 16, 2003 by Cali

[David Ayers]

On that point, how many people could really be "sick of hearing about" the vast majority of artists on the Leo label?  Or should I ask, how many people have even heard of the vast majority of artists on the Leo label?

This is the first I've heard of the label itself!

Heh heh. Well if you ever read the Wire, get the Mole Jazz mail order list, or visit Pete Stubley's euro-improv site, you will know ALL about the endless releases of Leo...

[Jim Alfredson]

I agree with Joe G. It is insanely hypocritical for a jazz publication to devout an issue to overrated or underrated musicians since the critics themselves are responsable for such status. It was a marketing ploy, pure and simple and one of the major reasons why I do not read JazzTimes magazine anymore.

[Green Dolphin]

Yeah,damn odd selection-are any of those players truly overrated and who's "overrating" them?Maybe I'm missing the point but Moondoc,Chapin,Leo artists-these are hardly up there as current Verve signings?or on the hallowed BN for that matter.The first name that jumps into my head is Wynton,but it's almost a cliche to say that(and recent events show perhaps that's he's plummetting toward underrrated-and editing here realise that he's WM and we dare not speak his name)Crazy question-outside of the "superstars"(usually all easy listening chantreuses...what is the correct plural for that)who is genuinely overrated in this music?Maybe the question should have been who has a reasonably good following but you can't stand!

Edited June 16, 2003 by Green Dolphin

[Guest Mnytime]

In regards to Spearman I can't remember the last time he was mentioned on the 3 BBS? If anything he needs a lot more attention. As well as Chapin, Moondoc, Gayle, Perlman.

By the way, speaking of Charles Gayle. Does anyone know what he is up to these days? Is he still dressing up as a clown and pontificating his "Born Again" views during live performances? I would have to look but I think it has been at least 2-3 years since his last release. After having to live on the streets and make a living by playing in the streets he was finally getting attention. His recording "Touchin' on Trane" is a masterpiece. IMHO

It's my understanding that Perlman is considering giving up playing or cutting back. It appears his paintings are making him more money than his music, which is s shame really. He is an incredible musician. IMHO

His painting is another story.

Finally, the vast majority of Leo releases are well worth having!!!!

Edited June 16, 2003 by Mnytime

[Joe M]

Dave Douglas

That being said, I like much of his music, but I'm just tired of hearing how "brilliant" he is! Good, but not brilliant.

[Soul Stream]

...music isn't a competition...it's a form of self expression. In that regard, no one can be over or under rated.

[JohnS]

I've got to add Brit wonderkid Jamie Cullum.

[7/4]

Dave Douglas

That being said, I like much of his music, but I'm just tired of hearing how "brilliant" he is! Good, but not brilliant.

Yeah...I've been wondering about that for a while. A bit too much hype....Masada too.

Edited June 19, 2003 by 7/4

[minew]

Leo artists that I don't hear nearly enough about:

The Art Ensemble of Chicago, Anthony Braxton, John Wolf Brennan, Eugene Chadbourne, Marilyn Crispell, The Ganelin Trio, Joelle Leandre, Joe and Mat Maneri, Simon Nabatov, Sainkho Namchylak, Lauren Newton, Evan Parker, Ned Rothenberg, Tibor Szemzo, Sun Ra, Cecil Taylor, Reggie Workman.

Where is all the ink or bandwidth being spilled over these geniuses? I'd sure be interested to read it. Also, I could surely do with more, not less, info on Charles Gayle and Moondoc.

I can't figure out why I keep hearing about the likes of Casandra Wilson, Joshua Redman, Nicholas Payton, Roy Hargrove, Diana Krall, and Stephon Harris.

[shrugs]

re: Dave Douglas

I think his earlier In Our Lifetime and Moving Portraits are about as close to brilliant as possible. In our Lifetime is gorgeous and a fine tribute to Booker Little. The Tiny Bell Trio live was brilliant when I heard them. Douglas was especially great.

His later output is indeed just good. The SACD with Misha and the boys is very good.

re:Ivo Perelman

wonderful sound and an intentsity that is more than just "let's see how loud I can play for how long". His playing on Sieiro, Sad Life, The Alexander Suite, Seeds, Visions and Counterpoint are all exceptional. Especially the first two. Some very fine playing on most of Brazilian Watercolour as well. I also like The Hammer very much but it may not be for everyone. The title is very fiting.

[Bright Moments]

why do so many people dislike john zorn?

[Bright Moments]

i liked naked city a lot.

i ordered torture garden and spillane. i hope they are good!

[mikeweil]

Miles Davis

Brad Mehldau

Archie Shepp

David Murray

Freddie Hubbard

Joe Zawinul

Jaco Pastorius

Michael Jackson

They all deserve some praise, but I'm sick of hearing about them.

But the last name in the list is a lot overpraised.

[White Lightning]

An interesting fact: The Israeli Jazz BB that I administrate has just selected Jemeel Moondoc for "Alto Player of the year 2004" with Zorn on the 2nd place.

As for myself - I think Josh Redman is overrated as well as Brad Mehldau. Vandermark is there too.

[SEK]

In "jazz": Ken Vandermark.

[Tony Pusey]

Keith Jarret,and, er, Chet Baker!

[sidewinder]

Jamie Cullum by a long way.

He should take the 'Brit' spot on this list which seems to be given to poor Humph - who has done more for Jazz in the UK via his radio show and live appearances than just about anyone. Big for 'Humph'..

[7/4]

7/4 good buddy, you need to get a LOT more. Tho' there are numerous other improvisers & composers i follow instead of Zorn, take a look at his own Tzadik catalog. There's puh-lenty inaccessible recordings there if that's yr bag. Whether or not I respond to his art's irrelevant; Zorn is a serious, hardworking, expansive, questing guy & while there are numerous ways to criticize him, yr ill-perceived notion of his latterday "accessibility" ain't one of 'em.

JAZZ squares don't like Zorn for all sorts of reasons... Classical squares generally ignore him, even the composed stuff tho' going Jewish x years ago was good for getting commissions (no cynicism there)... Rock weirdos tend to dig him tho' he can meander & what about when Zorn plays w/Wadada Leo Smith?

Verdict: there's A LOT to like if yr in the least bit open & tho' it's hep to dismiss it, you oughta have a decent reason. (mine's _______ & even that's half bluff.)

tonic clem

hull, ga

I just don't find him that interesting. Sure he's prolific and works hard but those are not aspects of music that get me excited.

[Dr. Rat]

I agree with Joe G. It is insanely hypocritical for a jazz publication to devout an issue to overrated or underrated musicians since the critics themselves are responsable for such status. It was a marketing ploy, pure and simple and one of the major reasons why I do not read JazzTimes magazine anymore.

There seems to eb a contradiction in this response: you seem to acknowledge that there's a problem with critics over- or under-rating musicians, but you don't want Jazz Times to talk about it?

--eric

[A Lark Ascending]

Dare I mention Tubby Hayes?

Nothing against him as a player and I have several discs by him that I enjoy. It's just that he's lionised so much that many other UK sax players tend to get overlooked by comparison.

Because he played mainly in a swing/hard bop style maybe he's just easier to relate to in the States. The only Uk sax player who gets anything like the attention is Joe Harriott.

I'd like to see the likes of Don Rendell, Tony Coe, Elton Dean, Stan Sulzmann getting a bit more attention rather than the fixating on Hayes.