Jarrett w/ Miles inquiry

[Guest ariceffron]

i thought KJ hated elec. pianos etc... why did he agree to tour w/ miles. i thought he detested amplified jazz etc...did he go on the road just to get more famous, or did he really think it would be worthwhile...etc ????

[GregK]

I thought Jarret said somewhere that yes he did hate it, but it was a chance to play/tour/record with Miles, so he had to do it. You don't say no to Miles

[mikeweil]

Well, he played electric piano on his first duet LP with Jack deJohnette on ECM, Ruta & Daitya, and did it very well. I like him best of all Rhodes players with Miles, he was the most daring - on the Live/Evil sessions, on key detuned, and the way he used it was so creative, using it like some weird scale or percussive color at the same time.

Jarrett knew Charlie Haden hated playing bass riffs, and still had him play a lot of them when Haden was a member of his quintet - obviously he learned his lesson. Sometimes the challenge of doing something you dislike or don't know yet brings out something new in a musician.

[Rooster_Ties]

I thought Jarret said somewhere that yes he did hate it, but it was a chance to play/tour/record with Miles, so he had to do it. You don't say no to Miles

That's what I've heard/read too. Pretty sure there's an interview segment on video (maybe just audio) where Jarrett confirms this very directly.

Maybe part of the Miles Davis Radio Project, or else maybe the documentary that ran prior to the Miles & Quincy Jones stuff on PBS. (Or else part of something else I'm forgetting.)

I'm sure there are a handful who've said no to Miles over the years, but probably not enough to count on two hands - maybe even just one. (Meaning people who outright said "no" from the git-go, choosing never to play with Miles, ever. People have left Miles after a time. Plenty of them, over the years.)

So, that brings up a good topic. Who said "no" to Miles, from the git-go?? Anybody?? Hard to document, I realize, and even harder to find confirming evidence. Probably all hearsay, at best, at least at this point.

Edited March 13, 2005 by Rooster_Ties

[Free For All]

Maybe this doesn't count, but Wayne initially turned Miles down, didn't he? As I understand it was just because he was fulfilling an obligation w/Blakey (it certainly wasn't because he didn't want to play with Miles). I would expect there were other situations similar to that.

[Rooster_Ties]

Maybe this doesn't count, but Wayne initially turned Miles down, didn't he? As I understand it was just because he was fulfilling an obligation w/Blakey (it certainly wasn't because he didn't want to play with Miles). I would expect there were other situations similar to that.

Considering that Wayne put Miles off for a good couple of years (more like three?? - I forget the exact chronology), I think this at least counts at least half-way.

I mean, it wasn't like he tried to get out of playing with Blakey ASAP.

[GregK]

When you're as talented as Wayne, you probably have the confidence to set your own path.....

[Free For All]

No shit!

[mikeweil]

So, that brings up a good topic. Who said "no" to Miles, from the git-go?? Anybody?? Hard to document, I realize, and even harder to find confirming evidence. Probably all hearsay, at best, at least at this point.

Geoffrey Keezer turned down an offer to join what was to be Miles' last band - he had an offer to go with Blakey at the same time on James Williams' recommendation, and chose Blakey because he had been dreaming about becoming a Jazz Messenger ever since he started playing jazz piano.

He told this in an interview on GMN.com.

[GA Russell]

Joe Zawinul said No to Miles.

And I believe that Ahmad Jamal did too.

[Guy Berger]

John McLaughlin also turned down Miles in order to play with Tony Williams, and later on when he was forming Mahavishnu.

As far as the original question, Jarrett also played an electric organ on "Nomads" from Expectations. My feeling is that in the early 70s he experimented with electric instruments, didn't like 'em, and made all sorts of elaborate metaphysical explanations for why he didn't like 'em.

Guy

[Guy Berger]

Hearing Jarrett with Miles in Berkeley (Jan. '71 I believe) I could see Miles standing near Keith and grinning with pleasure as Keith 'killed' with "Little Church."

And Keith was having a ball as well.

David,

Are you thinking of some other tune? Miles (almost certainly) never played "Little Church" live...

Guy

[marcello]

Sure!

Miles played "Little Church" on "Live-Evil"; which is, of course, LIVE!

[brownie]

Gary Peacock also said no and decided to join Albert Ayler (and Don Cherry and Sonny Murray) for European gigs in 1964 over a chance to play some more with Miles when given the choice!

[king ubu]

There's an interview segment with Jarrett in the recent "Miles Electric" DVD (the one culminating in the complete - friggin' feghing fantastic - Isle of Wight set). It's pretty funny to see what Jarrett has to say, as he obviously can't just put it down and say it was all b-s. He says he considered himself not making music there, that his part had no musical component, whatsoever, but rather he was adding kind of a specific "energy" to the band... Of course he did enjoy staying with Miles, that gets clear, too (and is prob. the main reason why he's not just putting it all down).

Herbie tells about his first encounter with a Fender rhodes, too, btw. Pretty nice to see them. And Herbie plays some Fender solo, too.

[mikeweil]

So why can't he just say, okay, that was back then, now is now, I was experimenting, and my tastes have changed - most natural thing to occur. I wouldn't have any problems admitting that some things I have played in the past are no longer to my taste.

Or is it just those bugging journalists? Or rather him contradicting himself?

[king ubu]

So why can't he just say, okay, that was back then, now is now, I was experimenting, and my tastes have changed - most natural thing to occur. I wouldn't have any problems admitting that some things I have played in the past are no longer to my taste.

Or is it just those bugging journalists? Or rather him contradicting himself?

I don't know what they asked him, as the guys who did the film are never heard (maybe once or twice, prob. when they weren't able to cut it out without destroying a segment).

I guess that's just his personality... It was good but it was no music... utter b-s, but funny to watch! And then when you see the concert (Isle of Wight, I mean), it does somehow make sense (the energy thing), but when you listen to Live-Evil, it does not make sense, no way! Jarrett is soooo good (AND musical) there!

Not that he's bad on the Isle of Wight concert, but Corea has all the solistic stuff to himself (not more than a few short spots) and doing all the "fills" in the accompaniment, too.

[mikeweil]

I guess that's just his personality... It was good but it was no music... utter b-s, but funny to watch! And then when you see the concert (Isle of Wight, I mean), it does somehow make sense (the energy thing), but when you listen to Live-Evil, it does not make sense, no way! Jarrett is soooo good (AND musical) there!

Yeah, he was killin' on Live/Evil - can't wait for the box set of this! I saw some live Miles in Berlin on TV with the next band with other rhythm men and Jarrett, and he was great there, too. Can't accept the funky part of his soul, eh?

[king ubu]

I guess that's just his personality... It was good but it was no music... utter b-s, but funny to watch! And then when you see the concert (Isle of Wight, I mean), it does somehow make sense (the energy thing), but when you listen to Live-Evil, it does not make sense, no way! Jarrett is soooo good (AND musical) there!

Yeah, he was killin' on Live/Evil - can't wait for the box set of this! I saw some live Miles in Berlin on TV with the next band with other rhythm men and Jarrett, and he was great there, too. Can't accept the funky part of his soul, eh?

Probably, yes. But then he did some utterly funky stuff on his Impulse recordings, too (though strictly acoustic there, but very funky...)

[Guy Berger]

Sure!

Miles played "Little Church" on "Live-Evil"; which is, of course, LIVE!

Nope -- about 20% of Live Evil was recorded in the studio.

Guy

[mikeweil]

Yes, Little Church was one of the studio tracks - perhaps marcello forgot 'cause the instensity of those live tracks overshadows the studio material.

[Kari S]

Just wait for the "Live At Cellar Door" (or whatever it will be called) 6CD box set... that stuff is sooo beautiful. Jarrett brings a totally different dynamic to the band as opposed to Corea, whose playing in the group was very angular, dissonant, atonal and aggressive even. Don't get me wrong, Jarrett can be all of those things as well, and is, but he's stylewise still a completely different artist on the electric piano.

[jazzbo]

Jarrett's a strange egg at least from what he manages to say to the waiting press. . . .

Yeah, that is going to be a great box set! Jarrett really could do the electric thing with his own "panache." I really like his work with Miles (with or without Corea as a keyboard partner). I really like his electronic piano work on the album with Gary Burton for Atlantic too!

[king ubu]

Don't get me wrong - I love the playing of Jarrett with Miles, no matter if you (or rather he) calls it energy or music! I was completely stunned by the Isle of Wight set! A little epiphany, for me!

[Guy Berger]

I think it's interesting that Jarrett was the last "major" keyboardist Miles used in the 70s. (There weren't that many in the 80s, either.) Cedric Lawson and Lonnie Liston Smith were in the band before Miles took over the organ, but both of them were pretty inconsequential in those bands (and for that matter, not especially consequential in jazz history relative to most of Miles's previous pianists/keyboardists).

A lot of time it's explained by the fact that Miles's new conception after On the Corner didn't open a big role for virtuoso keyboard playing, but I wonder if after Herbie/Chick/Keith he simply ran out of gifted keyboardists to hire.

Guy