CJ Shearn Posted March 13, 2005 Report Posted March 13, 2005 I bought "Moonflower" the other day (my first rock album believe it or not) and enjoy it. Tonight I ordered "Lotus", which I've heard is another more jazz fusion oriented album, which is why I ordered it. I think of "Moonflower" more as a fusion album rather than a traditional rock album, as I'm not a big rock fan. How is the music on "Lotus"? Quote
Free For All Posted March 13, 2005 Report Posted March 13, 2005 (edited) Since we're talking about Santana, I have a question. Is his recording with Herbie, Ron, Tony and Wayne- Swing of Delight- really as bad as the reviews say? Sorry to interrupt, CJ. Edited March 13, 2005 by Free For All Quote
BFrank Posted March 13, 2005 Report Posted March 13, 2005 I bought "Moonflower" the other day (my first rock album believe it or not) and enjoy it. Tonight I ordered "Lotus", which I've heard is another more jazz fusion oriented album, which is why I ordered it. I think of "Moonflower" more as a fusion album rather than a traditional rock album, as I'm not a big rock fan. How is the music on "Lotus"? Lotus isn't all that different from Moonflower. More instrumentals and just a couple of vocals from Leon Thomas. You'll should like it. Quote
CJ Shearn Posted March 13, 2005 Author Report Posted March 13, 2005 thanks for the heads up BFrank. I really have no idea about "The Swing of Delight" record, FFA. Quote
Free For All Posted March 13, 2005 Report Posted March 13, 2005 thanks for the heads up BFrank. I really have no idea about "The Swing of Delight" record, FFA. Thanks. Anyone? It came out in 1980. Quote
Guy Berger Posted March 13, 2005 Report Posted March 13, 2005 (edited) Since we're talking about Santana, I have a question. Is his recording with Herbie, Ron, Tony and Wayne- Swing of Delight- really as bad as the reviews say? Sorry to interrupt, CJ. Not that great... sad but true. Though there are one or two good tracks. Guy Edited March 13, 2005 by Guy Berger Quote
Guy Berger Posted March 13, 2005 Report Posted March 13, 2005 I bought "Moonflower" the other day (my first rock album believe it or not) and enjoy it. Tonight I ordered "Lotus", which I've heard is another more jazz fusion oriented album, which is why I ordered it. I think of "Moonflower" more as a fusion album rather than a traditional rock album, as I'm not a big rock fan. How is the music on "Lotus"? Lotus isn't all that different from Moonflower. More instrumentals and just a couple of vocals from Leon Thomas. You'll should like it. Disagree. Lotus is much, much better and more interesting than Moonflower! I haven't listened to it for a while now, but there are spectacular versions of "Every Step of the Way" and "Incident at Neshabur" on it. And I think the medley on the 2nd half of disc 1 is excellent as well. Guy Quote
scottb Posted March 13, 2005 Report Posted March 13, 2005 I used to have LOTUS before I was listenening to so much jazz. I really can't remember what it was like. Are these similar to CARAVANSERAI? Quote
BFrank Posted March 13, 2005 Report Posted March 13, 2005 "Caravanserai" is much more laid back than those 2 albums. I haven't listened to Lotus & Moonflower back-to-back, but I still think they are more alike than they are different. Expecially compared to much of Santana's other work after those releases. He became much more commersh. "Incident at Neshabur" is a highlight, for sure. He even throws in some "Afro Blue", if I remember correctly. Quote
Guy Berger Posted March 13, 2005 Report Posted March 13, 2005 "Incident at Neshabur" is a highlight, for sure. He even throws in some "Afro Blue", if I remember correctly. And "My Favorite Things" as well... Guy Quote
A Lark Ascending Posted March 13, 2005 Report Posted March 13, 2005 I really like 'Lotus' though it does have some annoying steam powered synth chipping in at way too loud a volume in places. It's very much of that 'Caravanserai'/'Welcome' era, though more heated. Doesn't have the immaculate poise of 'Caravanserai'. Quote
jazzbo Posted March 13, 2005 Report Posted March 13, 2005 (edited) Ah they're all good. Throw in another of my favorites as wel, "Borboletta," laid back, gorgeous stuff. Hopefully there will be a remaster soon enough. Edited March 13, 2005 by jazzbo Quote
CJ Shearn Posted March 13, 2005 Author Report Posted March 13, 2005 thanks for the recommendations everyone! Quote
Guy Berger Posted March 13, 2005 Report Posted March 13, 2005 Ah they're all good. Throw in another of my favorites as wel, "Borboletta," laid back, gorgeous stuff. Hopefully there will be a remaster soon enough. Borboletta is schizophrenic -- some really good stuff (esp w/Stanley Clarke and Airto), but also some mediocre commercial material. Guy Quote
Free For All Posted March 13, 2005 Report Posted March 13, 2005 (edited) Since we're talking about Santana, I have a question. Is his recording with Herbie, Ron, Tony and Wayne- Swing of Delight- really as bad as the reviews say? Sorry to interrupt, CJ. Not that great... sad but true. Though there are one or two good tracks. Guy I'm just curious how (with those guys playing) it can be so bad? Are the tunes lame? Is Santana in over his head (or too far out of his element) perhaps? Any further insights would be appreciated. I've ALMOST purchased this one several times but haven't quite been able to pull the trigger. EDIT: I just added the personnel listing- do Herbie, Ron, Wayne and Tony play on many cuts? I guess I didn't realize there were so many others on the recording. Personnel: Carlos Santana (vocals, acoustic, electric & 12-string guitars, percussion); Raul Rekow (vocals, congas, percussion); Orestes Vilato (vocals, timbales, percussion); Alex Ligertwood (vocals); Russell Tubbs (flute, soprano & tenor saxophones); Wayne Shorter (soprano & tenor saxophones); Herbie Hancock (piano, Fender Rhodes piano, Clavinet, keyboards, synthesizer); Ron Carter (acoustic bass); David Margen (bass); Tony Williams, Harvey Mason, Graham Lear (drums); Armando Peraza (congas, bongos, percussion); Francisco Aguabella (congas). Edited March 13, 2005 by Free For All Quote
jazzbo Posted March 13, 2005 Report Posted March 13, 2005 Swing is overall disappointing. . . for me it has all the worst most noodlesome aspects that the personnel sometims bring to dates, and Santana is really not doing HIS thing and it just is boring. When it first came out I spun it and spun it and spun it on cassette trying to like it. Then I bought it and cd and rinsed and repeated. Still don't really like it. Quote
jazzbo Posted March 13, 2005 Report Posted March 13, 2005 I guess at the time the mediocre commercial material seemed less mediocre on Borbaletta Guy; I agree it's dated now but I was able to buy this when it came out and really groove to it (with some help from partying materials). I still really like it; I think maybe I have sentimentality stirred in there that makes parts seem not mediocre to me. Quote
BFrank Posted March 13, 2005 Report Posted March 13, 2005 I guess at the time the mediocre commercial material seemed less mediocre on Borbaletta Guy; I agree it's dated now but I was able to buy this when it came out and really groove to it (with some help from partying materials). I still really like it; I think maybe I have sentimentality stirred in there that makes parts seem not mediocre to me. I like "Borboletta" a lot, too. I don't know why they haven't done a remaster on this one yet, since they've it for "Welcome" and "Caravanserai". Quote
mikeweil Posted March 13, 2005 Report Posted March 13, 2005 You would expect Carlos Santana to go jazz with Herbie, Wayne, and Tony on board - instead it's them going rock, and in a not so inspired sounding fashion - that's what makes Swing of Delight so disappointing to me. I sold it after a few years, didn't jell. Herbie's much more inspired on, say, Andy Summers' Charming Snakes. Quote
BFrank Posted March 13, 2005 Report Posted March 13, 2005 I don't know how well Carlos can do "jazz", anyway. No matter where he plays, it always ends up sounding like "Santana" music. He's just so intense, I think it's hard for him to blend into another style. I just saw him last night on the PBS special Eric Clapton "Crossroads" guitar festival. He had his own band and Eric sat in with them. It was no contest, really. Carlos is a fiery, agressive guitar player and Eric was just too laid-back and bluesy to keep up (although he gave it a valiant effort). Quote
GregK Posted March 14, 2005 Report Posted March 14, 2005 I just saw him last night on the PBS special Eric Clapton "Crossroads" guitar festival. He had his own band and Eric sat in with them. It was no contest, really. Carlos is a fiery, agressive guitar player and Eric was just too laid-back and bluesy to keep up (although he gave it a valiant effort). Damn!!! I didn't know he was on that!! I was watching the beginning of it, but it seemed to messy for me, too many similar sounding guitars all playing at once(why was Eric's multi colored??), and once Jimmie Vaughan started singing I couldn't bear it any more, so I shut it off (I've never been able to like anything I've heard by either Vaughan brother). If I had known Santana was there I would have waited it out. Quote
CJ Shearn Posted March 14, 2005 Author Report Posted March 14, 2005 ok, this conversation is going way past my grasp, I'm not a Santana hardcore just casual. Quote
BFrank Posted March 14, 2005 Report Posted March 14, 2005 I just saw him last night on the PBS special Eric Clapton "Crossroads" guitar festival. He had his own band and Eric sat in with them. It was no contest, really. Carlos is a fiery, agressive guitar player and Eric was just too laid-back and bluesy to keep up (although he gave it a valiant effort). Damn!!! I didn't know he was on that!! I was watching the beginning of it, but it seemed to messy for me, too many similar sounding guitars all playing at once(why was Eric's multi colored??), and once Jimmie Vaughan started singing I couldn't bear it any more, so I shut it off (I've never been able to like anything I've heard by either Vaughan brother). If I had known Santana was there I would have waited it out. FWIW, they did "Jingo". I missed most of the show myself and had the sound off for much of the rest of it. I did hear Joe Walsh (w/Booker T & the MGs!) doing "Funk 49", which wasn't 1/2 bad. Just about the only thing by Walsh that I could say that I like. Quote
GregK Posted March 14, 2005 Report Posted March 14, 2005 I did hear Joe Walsh (w/Booker T & the MGs!) doing "Funk 49", that's almost as unbelieveable as when Neil Young played with them! Quote
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