Do you model your tone and style?

[Jazz Kat]

Some musicians say they stuck with one instrument their whole life, and never got tired of it. I am constantly going back and re-examining my playing, not being satisfied with how I sound, and what instrument I am playing. I started out on drums, but fairly recently, I just needed something with melody. I played trumpet for a while, but I just got no chops on it. So I went back to drums. But then I took piano lessons, I got pretty good at jamming, but for my lack of jazz chords, I stopped telling myself I was gonna be a piano player. So of course I went back to drums, I have always wanted a saxophone, but can't afford it. I tried2 play guitar for about a year, (on and off, about 25 % of the year was playing it, I hardly played it often) with no success. But recently I have gotten good at it. I solo pretty good and can move pretty swiftly up and down the neck. But for my lack of chord knowledge, and guitar not being heard as much as a sax or piano, it got me down. So I tried bass so I didnt have to learn any chords, but then the issue of needing an up right and how much they cost came in so I got down on myself again. Allright, I need an instrument with a melody, so currently I'm with guitar.I just need to learn chords pronto. I can solo great, just dont know any chords. some suggestions on this would be helpful.)

Heres the main thing.

Since the guitar isnt used as often as other horn instruments such as saxophones and trumpets, I am trying to model my guitar playing after horn men, (Newk, Trane, Miles, Mobley, Garland, Jamal, everyone!!!)

Do you do this? (Model your sound on your instrument like someone else who plays a completly different instrument as you?)

Edited March 12, 2005 by Jazz Kat

[Joe G]

It's a very good idea. It gets you out of playing strictly guitaristic stuff.

One of the most interesting non-guitar solos I ever learned was from Miles on Freddie Freeloader. Try to play the rhythms and pitches exactly as he does. It's not as simple as it initially sounds. I had also worked up Wynton's solo on the same tune, though an octave down for some of it IIRC.

For chords, there's a good (and slim) book by Joe Pass that would get you on the right track.

[Free For All]

I listen to and learn from all types of instrumentalists and vocalists (I play trombone).

I've learned a lot about phrasing ballads from listening to singers and also from listening to Miles, Ben Webster, Lester Young, etc.

I've learned about playing with good time from Clark Terry, Cannonball Adderley, Sonny Stitt, Bird etc.

I've learned about motivic development from Sonny Rollins, Bob Brookmeyer, John Coltrane etc.

I've learned about swing from Wynton Kelly, Jimmy Smith, Art Blakey, Elvin Jones, Gene Ammons, Wes Montgomery, Lee Morgan etc.

I've learned about harmony from Bill Evans, Gil Evans, Woody Shaw, Freddie Hubbard, Thad Jones etc.

I've learned about soul and sound from all of the above and more. This list just barely scratches the surface, but I expect you get my point.

One other thing JazzKat- instead of finding ways to get around learning jazz harmony and theory, you should just jump in and deal with it. And how can you say bass players don't need to know about harmony?

There is a lot to learn, but you will find that just a little information will immediately start expanding your musical vocabulary. Sounds like you've got good ears and that's important, but it's only part of the game. I came into jazz like that- good ears and minimal understanding of harmony. I found out real quick that I needed both skills to function.

Edited March 12, 2005 by Free For All

[Jazz Kat]

I dont really remember saying bass players dont need to know harmony. You probaly interperted it a different way from which I meant you to. To get the gist of what I said, I need a front line instrument, and the guitar is perfect for me I guess. I am not lazy about learning the chords, just get down a lot because I dont know any, nor know really how to learn. It's like books, teachers.... Whats the best way.

[Free For All]

So I tried bass so I didnt have to learn any chords

Well, that's how I interpreted this statement. How did you mean it?

As far as where you should go to learn theory, ask a question here and you will get many responses. While there are many excellent books available, I personally think that it's important to hook up with someone so you can ask specific questions- learning by yourself from a book can be pretty dull and dry. I also think a big part of learning jazz theory is ear training- connecting chord symbols and scales to actual sounds.

There must be someone you could approach about helping you- either local musicians or someone at a high school or college in the area. At the very least there are many here who can advise you- just ask.

[Big Al]

I play* three instruments: bass, guitar, and drums. When I play bass, I try to get that good walking feel played by Sam Jones. On the guitar (especially the acoustic), I try to get that ominous ringing tone that John Fahey played so well. When I'm playing drums at church, I try to emulate the cheerful abandon of Billy Higgins, the sensitive listening of Paul Motian, and the free-for-all ferocity of Art Blakey (sometimes all on the same song! )

Which is really just my name-dropping way of saying I don't have an original bone in my body!

*Term used verrrry loosely. I mainly play for my own pleasure, as with the exception of the church gig, I don't really have much of an outlet for my musical playing. Which is probably a good thing!

Edited March 13, 2005 by Big Al

[Jazz Kat]

So I tried bass so I didnt have to learn any chords

Well, that's how I interpreted this statement. How did you mean it?

As far as where you should go to learn theory, ask a question here and you will get many responses. While there are many excellent books available, I personally think that it's important to hook up with someone so you can ask specific questions- learning by yourself from a book can be pretty dull and dry. I also think a big part of learning jazz theory is ear training- connecting chord symbols and scales to actual sounds.

There must be someone you could approach about helping you- either local musicians or someone at a high school or college in the area. At the very least there are many here who can advise you- just ask.

I meant on the guitar. I know all the basic chords on the piano. And have a few 7 chords memorized. I cna sit down with a book with about 5000 chords and memorize them all. That time will come. But I need to get off the ground first.

[Joe G]

It would expedite things to get a good guitar teacher to work with for a couple of years. Then you can use those books to expand on that base of knowledge.

[Ron S]

It would expedite things to get a good guitar teacher to work with for a couple of years. Then you can use those books to expand on that base of knowledge.

The problem is, to get a REALLY good guitar teacher, you have to travel to Michigan.

[That's payback for all your sage advice ]

[Joe G]

Hell, I'm thinking of going to K.C to take some theory lessons from this badass trombone player I know!

[Free For All]

Yeah Joe, come on down. There's this new thing called a *sharp eleven* that I've been checking out, I think I almost have it figured out. I'd be glad to *hip* you to it.

Then we'll go eat BBQ.

....unless of course you're a vegetarian.

Edited March 13, 2005 by Free For All

[Joe G]

Not YOU!

[Jim Alfredson]

I hurt myself on a sharp eleven once and now I can only use dull ones.

[scottb]

Don't say I didn't warn you about that woodworking!

[bluesForBartok]

I think the best thing you can do is just start with a basic chord, a triad or 7th chord and start adding / deleting various notes to come up with different colors. For instance, instead of playing a chord like C--E--G, substitute A for the G and you have a C6 or CMaj6 or whatever you call it. From there you could add the Maj 7th note above that which would spell C--E--A--B. The major 2nd interval separating the A and B creates a nice sound. Sort of the beginning of a cluster. Does that make sense? I find stuff like that really helps which I guess is essentially knowing the notes of the scale numerically (1-2-3 || C-D-E etc.) and mixing them up.

Sounds like you have the soloing thing down pretty well. Good job man. I've transcribed tons of solos, played every scale I can get my hands on in all keys and every intervallic combination and my soloing bites the big one.

Perhaps you can share some of your secrets.

[Jazz Kat]

There's no secret. You just play what comes out, most of the time. I do get down on myself, because I think I'm playing shit, but it all gets better with time.

[Sundog]

It's a very good idea. It gets you out of playing strictly guitaristic stuff.

One of the most interesting non-guitar solos I ever learned was from Miles on Freddie Freeloader. Try to play the rhythms and pitches exactly as he does. It's not as simple as it initially sounds. I had also worked up Wynton's solo on the same tune, though an octave down for some of it IIRC.

For chords, there's a good (and slim) book by Joe Pass that would get you on the right track.

Yeah, I've spent time learning Miles' solo from Green Dolphin Street. One of the best things I've ever done.

[Jazz Kat]

I was just trying to put some of the concepts on The Shape Of Jazz To Come, to the guitar.