Hubbard and Morgan

[Jazzmoose]

arriceffron's post makes no sense.

Cornelius, it'll save a lot of time and bandwidth if you just assume that your post follows each of Aric's posts....

[Cornelius]

You mean that that particular post of mine should be assumed to follow each of his posts. Yes, you have a good point there. Why even bother, eh? But has anybody ever figured out if he's a put-on or if he's serious?

[Guest ariceffron]

NO MORE POSTING MY PICTURE DAMN YOU AND PLAY CORNBREAD 4 MY TRIBUTE NOT CERORA

[Cornelius]

Just for sake of irony, I'll play the Savoy album, since it has Morgan's name in big letters on the cover while Mobley, the actual session leader, has his name reduced to much smaller letters.

Edited March 15, 2005 by Cornelius

[Joe M]

Both Freddie and Lee were BAMF's. Freddie has a lot of Coltrane in his playing. Lee not so much. Lee had a deeper blues feeling in his playing, Freddie less so. Check out their playing on Soulfinger (Blakey's record).

[take5]

Hubbard has a more "breathy" tone.

[kdd]

Freddie expresses himself via technique and Lee expresses himself.

Total bullshit

[Chrome]

I've only got four or five discs from each, but from what I've been able to glean, I think Morgan was more adventurous ... for example, I'm not aware of a Hubbard counterpart to Search for the New Land.

[Big Wheel]

I've only got four or five discs from each, but from what I've been able to glean, I think Morgan was more adventurous ... for example, I'm not aware of a Hubbard counterpart to Search for the New Land.

As a writer, especially in the '60s, maybe. As an improviser, no way.

[sal]

I immediately gravitated towads Lee when I first got into jazz. His fiery blowing and soul really got to me. But as the years have passed, I've grown to like Freddie a bit more. He seems more versatile to me....meaning he's able to play in more different contexts than Lee, who for the most part sticks to the hard bop bag. I couldn't imagine Lee playing on "Maiden Voyage", but I can imagine Freddie playing on "The Sidewinder".

[Chrome]

As a writer, especially in the '60s, maybe. As an improviser, no way.

What do recommend, Hubbard-wise?

[Big Wheel]

As an improviser? I confess that I know him a lot better as a sideman than as a leader...he's at his most adventurous on:

Empyrean Isles

Contours

Speak No Evil

As well as Free Jazz and Ascension, though I'm not as familiar with those two.

[Cornelius]

"Lee [...] for the most part sticks to the hard bop bag." [sal]

That is true, for the most part. But don't forget that Morgan moved into other areas too.

/

"Empyrean Isles" [big Wheel]

That's not just one of many counterexamples to Chrome's claim but it also has some of Hubbard's playing that's really funky, as at least evidence toward rebutting other posters' evaluation of Morgan as funkier (or blusier or more soulful). I don't think many of these comparative generalizations hold up.

Edited March 15, 2005 by Cornelius

[Chrome]

he's at his most adventurous on:

Empyrean Isles

Contours

Speak No Evil

You know what? I completely retract my previous post ... I was just thinking of the discs I have w/him as a leader, like Hubcap, Hub-tones, Red Clay, etc ... I've got all three discs you mention and agree w/your assessment! I'll just shut up now ...

[Jazz Kat]

I'll never forget Morgan's solo on Moanin'. My dad loved that solo (not really into jazz) Without knowing who it was he said that was a good solo. I think he meant his technique. He likes very sharp trumpet playing.

Edited March 15, 2005 by Jazz Kat

[MartyJazz]

I've dug both players through the years but today I listened for the umpteenth time to "The Coaster" from Grachan Moncur's EVOLUTION. This cut places Lee higher in my estimation. The way this solo builds, its soulfulness, intensity, outright beauty......I just can't think of anything Freddie ever did that comes near to the greatness of what Lee does here. Just my opinion.

[JSngry]

Freddie expresses himself via technique and Lee expresses himself.

Not taking this at implied face value (whatever the hell that means...), I would tend to agree.

Freddie (for a while, anyway) seemed to always be looking for new technical means & challenges through which to channel his obviously high-energy personality. Lee, otoh, played what he was with what he had (which was quite a bit, obviosly), and, although never stagnating, seemed less interested in creating/solving new technical breakthroughs than with just "being" in whatever/wherever the moment found him in. Freddie always (in the "good ol' days, anyway, always seemd to me to be trying to go beyond the immediate moment.

Both men created some remarkable music, each in their own way, but whoever said that these were two different minds and personalities had it right.

[Jazz Kat]

I both consider them the two best hard bop trumpeters, considering there ain't some dude in his basement who is a little shy, and very gifted I might add.

[Chuck Nessa]

Freddie expresses himself via technique and Lee expresses himself.

Total bullshit

You go boy!

[Jazz Kat]

What you said Chuck was above my head so I dont even know what it meant.

[Cali]

Having seen each of them in the 60s, my overall impression is they were both great.

To me, Freddie, though technically brilliant, did not construct his solos with as much continuity as Lee. Lee's solos always seemed logical and told a story, with a beginning a middle and an end. Someone earlier said that Lee's solos were conversational and I completely agree. When you listen to Lee it's like he's talking to you. I get the same feeling listening to Dolphy.

[Cornelius]

Yep, Morgan's structure and communicativeness were great. But I also enjoy Hubbard's less "linear" structural logic too, sometimes even when he wasn't so logical and seemed not to have the clarity that Morgan would have about the plan of the solo.

[wolff]

To me, it's simple. How well do they communicate their idea/message? Both did it flawlessly on numerous occasions. Both have a couple, absolutely stunning albums on BN. I could care less how they achieved it. In the final analysis, regarding my favorite albums of each, I have no favorite.

Works for me...YMMV

[John L]

Morgan and Hubbard are both monster trumpet players, of course.

I tend to favor a bluesier and looser approach to improvisation. So I should like Lee better. For some reason, however, I have a particular musical attachment to Freddie. I just love the way that he articulates on the horn. Like Lee, Freddie also delivers blues and soul in heavy supply.

[CJ Shearn]

I love both. Hubbard I think has a rounder warmer tone, and Lee's is sharper and brighter, and Freddie tends to go for intense heat right away, playing some astonishing ideas and going for more out playing. Lee builds up the intensity, although by "Live at the Lighthouse" I feel Lee absorbed a great deal of Hub's playing, just listen to his trades with DeJohnette on "Speedball" he attempts one of Freddie's famous trills, a bit slower in execution, but its there.