Folk Music And Jazz

[Guest che]

Hi.

I have two great loves in life, well at least musically that is and these are jazz and folk music.

Now I am curious as to the relationship between folk music and jazz? Is there one at all?

I have long been interested in the folk music and culture of Finland for example, and I see a close relationship between the this and the jazz that has come from this country.

Any thoughts?

Che.

[tonym]

Did you say you've been to Finland?

[sidewinder]

There's certainly a lot of cross-fertilisation between the folk and jazz scenes here in the UK. Huw Warren is a good example, an artist who operates equally in both genres, drawing on the old UK folk tradition. Another example would be Danny Thompson, a bass player who has done a lot of mainstream jazz work but has also been featured on lots of folk sessions. Ditto the late Harold McNair's work with the likes of John Martin.

Singer Christine Tobin also seems to draw extensively from the UK/Irish folk tradition, as well as drawing on elements of jazz, with convincing results.

Worth also mentioning the hybrids with Scottish folk music such as John Rae's 'Celtic Feet' (who have performed at festivals with Hungarian folk musicians, again very convincingly). Ken Hyders 'Talisker' was another band that delved extensively into the highland repertoire.

Edited March 4, 2005 by sidewinder

[Guest che]

Did you say you've been to Finland?

Get a life!

Che

[Guest che]

Did you say you've been to Finland?

Yes I did.

I first went To Finland in the mid-90's to Turku, the former capital and since then I have been to most parts of the country. What is clear to me is that Finland and Sweden have a long tradition of the intergration of jazz and folk music.

Che.

Oh by the way I have been to Sweden to.

[Guest che]

There's certainly a lot of cross-fertilisation between the folk and jazz scenes here in the UK. Huw Warren is a good example, an artist who operates equally in both genres, drawing on the old UK folk tradition. Another example would be Danny Thompson, a bass player who has done a lot of mainstream jazz work but has also been featured on lots of folk sessions. Ditto the late Harold McNair's work with the likes of John Martin.

Singer Christine Tobin also seems to draw extensively from the UK/Irish folk tradition, as well as drawing on elements of jazz, with convincing results.

Worth also mentioning the hybrids with Scottish folk music such as John Rae's 'Celtic Feet' (who have performed at festivals with Hungarian folk musicians, again very convincingly). Ken Hyders 'Talisker' was another band that delved extensively into the highland repertoire.

Yes I am aware of some of the references you mention, and of the long history between the folk and jazz scenes in the UK.

Thanks for the reply.

Che.

[John L]

Given the close relation of the Blues to African American folk music, I would say that classic jazz also has a close relation.

[BFrank]

The last session of the Carmell Jones Mosaic Select set consists of jazz versions of popular folk tunes of the day.

[Guest che]

Given the close relation of the Blues to African American folk music, I would say that classic jazz also has a close relation.

John.

Do you have any more thoughts on this idea?

Che.

[joeface]

When I listen to Brian Blade Fellowship (both CD's), I feel like I am hearing jazz through a folk grid. But I mean that in a good way. I suppose the pedal steel, Daniel Lanois production, and Joni Mitchell guest vocals have something to do with it as well.

I'm curious what other jazz artists bring the two together in this way.

j

Edited March 4, 2005 by joeface

[AllenLowe]

you have to define true folk music - one of the beter definitions is music that does not rely upon professional dissemination - but even with that, this is a very complicated topic, as many things thought of as folk sources have turned out to be related to things seen as non-folk - from professional songwriters, minstrelsy, etc. However, for a good idea of how well folk sources can be used by a jazz composer, look at some of Lars Gullin's work -

Edited March 4, 2005 by AllenLowe

[Guest che]

When I listen to Brian Blade Fellowship (both CD's), I feel like I am hearing jazz through a folk grid. But I mean that in a good way. I suppose the pedal steel, Daniel Lanois production, and Joni Mitchell guest vocals have something to do with it as well.

I'm curious what other jazz artists bring the two together in this way.

j

I only have one Brian Blade Fellowship and that is the 1998 Blue Note Album, and I see what you mean.

The track 'Folklore' is a good example of the intergration of folk and jazz, with it's 'native' sounds' mixed with jazz.

Che.

[AllenLowe]

lots of Jelly Roll Morton has folk sources - listen to the Library of Congress/Lomax recordings in which he delineates, with fascinating detail, the connections -

[Guest che]

lots of Jelly Roll Morton has folk sources - listen to the Library of Congress/Lomax recordings in which he delineates, with fascinating detail, the connections -

Man I love Jelly Roll and Bix Beiderbecke, and you are right in my view that they reflected and srticulated their times.

Great

Che.

[Brandon Burke]

Billy Higgins appears on two Sandy Bull LPs....

[Neal Pomea]

Though he is thought of as a folk musician in some circles and probably should not, guitarist John Fahey loved traditional jazz and featured it on his albums Of Rivers and Religion, After the Ball, and Old Fashioned Love. The last one, OFL, has a great tune by Clarence Williams, Boodle Am, as well as a jazz Keep Your Lamps Trimmed and Burning.

Then you might think of the early jazz blues singers like Bessie Smith and that crowd having some connection with the folk music of the day, but I might be wrong.

[Jeffro]

I love both jazz & folk. It's all "roots" music. To paraphrase Louis Armstrong: All music is folk music. Horses don't sing.

[take5]

The blues is black American folk music. Jazz is a product of the blues. It is by definition "related" to folk music.

Any music created by the "common" people of a nation (as opposed to the aristocracy) is folk music.

[AllenLowe]

"The blues is black American folk music."

actually there is no proof of this, and the earliest blues performances/songs we have are tin-Pan alley related, commercial performances. Now, it is very possible that their intial sources were "folk," but we do not really know this for a fact - an equally plausible theory is that the blues was a commercial development of folk sources, a professional codification of black song -

Edited March 4, 2005 by AllenLowe

[BFrank]

Tim Hardin - "Bird on a Wire"

This album has a surprisingly diverse roster of jazz (and other) artists on it:

Warren Bernhardt Keyboards

Richard Bock Cello

Sam T. Brown Guitar

Canby Singers Vocals, Vocals (bckgr)

Bill Chelf Arranger, Keyboards

Monte Dunn Guitar

Ed Freeman Guitar, Producer, Horn Arrangements, String Arrangements

Steve Haas Percussion, Drums

Tim Hardin Guitar, Arranger, Keyboards, Vocals

Paul Hornsby Keyboards

Bill Keith Pedal Steel, Guitar (Steel)

Tony Levin Bass

Ralph MacDonald Percussion, Drums

Mike Mainieri Vocals (bckgr), Vibraphone

Glen Moore Bass

Alphonse Mouzon Percussion, Drums

Natoga Percussion, Drums

Robert Popwell Bass, Percussion, Drums

George Ricci Cello

Margaret Ross Harp

Rob Rothstein Bass

Joe Rudd Guitar

Bill Stewart Percussion, Drums

Ralph Towner Guitar

Miroslav Vitous Bass

Collin Walcott Vocals (bckgr), Vibraphone

Joe Zawinul Arranger, Keyboards

[A Lark Ascending]

Try this:

A strange fusion of jazz and country/bluegrass. The CD is actually quite tame by comparison with a live broadcast the BBC put out a few weeks back where the band sounded like Hank Williams fronting Lifetime!

Edited March 5, 2005 by Bev Stapleton

[JSngry]

the band sounded like Hank Williams fronting Lifetime!

Now THAT I would like to hear!

"There Comes A Time When I'm So Lonesome I Could Cry"? Oh HELL yeah!

Where can I go to investigate this one?

[A Lark Ascending]

I'm afraid the live broadcast is no longer on the BBC website - they only run for a week.

The band have two CDs - the first (which I've not heard) - was heavily promoted because Norah Jones was on a couple of tracks. I ignored it assuming it was some cash-in. But the broadcast really impressed me - the tunes would be sung in a drawl and then vere off into wonderful improvisations with David Binney going absolutely bonkers. It was the organ of Gary Versace that really had me puzzling where I'd heard this sound before and 'Lifetime' sprang to mind.

Here's the track list of the 2nd CD:

01. Riding on the Midnight Train

02. Galveston

03. Shady Grove

04. I am the Light of This World

05. I’ll Fly Away

06. So Long Second Street

07. Waterbound

08. The Water is Wide

09. Time Flies

10. Oh Death

11. White Line Fever

12. Wichita Lineman

Personnel

Joel Harrison - electric, National Steel guitar, baritone guitar, voice

David Binney – saxophone

Gary Versace - accordion, organ, piano

Stephan Crump - acoustic bass

Dan Weiss – drums

Todd Isler - frame drums, hadjini, misc. percussion

Guests:

Uri Caine – piano

Rob Burger - organ

Emilie Cardinaux - voice

Total praise Gospel Choir

Details:

http://www.actmusic.com/act9431_e.htm#track

[JSngry]

Thanks, Bev! 'Preciate it!

[brownie]

The late Swedish pianist Jan Johansson was one of those rare musicians who successfully combined jazz with his country's folklore and explored the possibilities.

All the albums where he took inspiration from Sweden's folk music produced some of the most enjoyable music around. I have heard only a few of them but each of those I managed to get proved the combination could be a very swinging and inspiring success.

I know that Lars Gullin and Bengt Arne-Wallin also took the same route but I am less familiar with those essays!