The recent rise of out-in-the-open CDR trading...

[Noj]

Hey, nobody's saying "don't do boots"; it's just "don't do boots here", particularly since Jim asked us not to.

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Works for me.

[Jim Alfredson]

I see that I'm going to have to put some more thought into this. Can y'all give me some time before freaking out to develop a fair rule about this sort of thing?

[Brad]

I really think that talking about trading or making cds of illegal recordings violates what Jim has asked. It's not a law but something that won't get this board in trouble. We shouldn't violate the spirit. Hans is absolutely right although I hope he didn't mean that he's leaving the Board.

As far as cdrs vs. Definitive type of companies, while Wolff may be right, the difference is that we don't want this Board drawn into any difficulties. What Disconforme does is up to others to police but we don't want this Board to be policed by third parties. It's up to police ourselves so others won't.

[Jazzmoose]

I see that I'm going to have to put some more thought into this.  Can y'all give me some time before freaking out to develop a fair rule about this sort of thing?

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Well.........okay, but can we find something else to freak out about while we wait?

[Guy Berger]

There's no horse-trading going on in the Pink Floyd thread -- that's why I was surprised when Kevin mentioned it in this context.

        Guy

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From the Pink Floyd thread:

Anybody have a recommendation for good Floyd downloads from DaD?  I'm not interested in every Floyd bootleg ever recorded, just in the best stuff.  Bonus points for especially good versions of "Echoes" or interesting jamming.

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What else would you call this?

I would call it asking for a recommendation, much like one would ask for a recommendation about the latest RVGs or a particular artist.

Guy

Edited July 9, 2005 by Guy Berger

[Clunky]

I really think that talking about trading or making cds of illegal recordings violates what Jim has asked.  It's not a law but something that won't get this board in trouble.  We shouldn't violate the spirit.  Hans is absolutely right although I hope he didn't mean that he's leaving the Board.

As far as cdrs vs. Definitive type of companies, while Wolff may be right, the difference is that we don't want this Board drawn into any difficulties.  What Disconforme does is up to others to police but we don't want this Board to be policed by third parties.  It's up to police ourselves so others won't.

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this pretty much nails the argument IMO- we don't want trouble.

On a personal note I have enough difficulty finding listening time for my legitimate CDs LPs etc let alone dubious quality boots.

[rostasi]

Well, the thing that bothers me the most about this discussion

is what's at it's very core: the very nature of the way that so many people -

everywhere, not just here - are so cowed by this culture of fear and intimidation -

even to the point of ridiculous speculation.

With MUCHO respect for Jim, I think it is so incredibly unlikely -

that lawyers and politicians would be descending on our little world of jazztalk -

that somehow some group of people would think that we're upsetting the applecart of music

by just talking about private recordings would be worthy of some heavy-handed investigation.

If there ever was that very smidgen of a legal chance, it would have to be proven that Organissimo

was started with the intention of trading boots.

I mean, it's not like we're called "Bootin'issimo" and we have legions of fans that flock to us for

illegal Ornette skronkinations. So, maybe about 1% of our members (12 people)

want to get some stuff that hasn't been made available by the artists - big whoop.

Those boots were made for walking and that's just what they'll do!

Jim, I just really don't think that one of these days they'll walk all over you...

---

Now playing: Merzbow - Untitled Guitar Solo

[Michael Fitzgerald]

If no sources/sites are mentioned here, what's the problem? Folks who are interested in obtaining such things will be forced to inquire off the board, which is exactly what was requested. In the end, all the sites are short-term so eventually they will disappear. The recordings themselves and the music on them won't. And these are a very important part of documenting an artist, a scene, and music in general.

It's ridiculous to pretend that such things don't exist. It's equally ridiculous to expect certain discussions to talk *only* about commercial items (I mean, early 1970s Pink Floyd - there's so much stuff).

Don't make this board the next step to the questionable sites. Any rules that go beyond that are unproductive.

Mike

[sheldonm]

If no sources/sites are mentioned here, what's the problem? Folks who are interested in obtaining such things will be forced to inquire off the board, which is exactly what was requested. In the end, all the sites are short-term so eventually they will disappear. The recordings themselves and the music on them won't. And these are a very important part of documenting an artist, a scene, and music in general.

It's ridiculous to pretend that such things don't exist. It's equally ridiculous to expect certain discussions to talk *only* about commercial items (I mean, early 1970s Pink Floyd - there's so much stuff).

Don't make this board the next step to the questionable sites. Any rules that go beyond that are unproductive.

Mike

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[JSngry]

So this means that my planned personal fundraising offer to make CDRs of anything and everything in my collection for $29.99 each should probably be postponed for a little bit, eh?

[Guy Berger]

So this means that my planned personal fundraising offer to make CDRs of anything and everything in my collection for $29.99 each should probably be postponed for a little bit, eh?

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If anybody wants, I'm selling CD-Rs of Kind of Blue for $60 a pop. I am including my own original cover art.

Guy

[Michael Fitzgerald]

I assume you will dupe from disc sources, use the Adderly spelling, will have side one tracks play at the wrong speed, and will credit Miles Davis only as composer of Blue In Green.

Oh, and you will replace the Flamenco Sketches master take with the alternative take.

Mike

[Use3D]

With MUCHO respect for Jim, I think it is so incredibly unlikely -

that lawyers and politicians would be descending on our little world of jazztalk -

that somehow some group of people would think that we're upsetting the applecart of music

by just talking about private recordings would be worthy of some heavy-handed investigation.

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Good point, and the main reason most of that kind of discussion is a no-no on other boards is because they're sponsored by advertising agencies who might shitcan their investment in the site if they caught wind of pirated matrrial being talked about or linked to. That doesn't apply here at Org either.

[Guy Berger]

I assume you will dupe from disc sources, use the Adderly spelling, will have side one tracks play at the wrong speed, and will credit Miles Davis only as composer of Blue In Green.

Oh, and you will replace the Flamenco Sketches master take with the alternative take.

Mike

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"Freddie Freeloader" has overdubbed vocals in Chinese...

Guy

[Brad]

I assume you will dupe from disc sources, use the Adderly spelling, will have side one tracks play at the wrong speed, and will credit Miles Davis only as composer of Blue In Green.

Oh, and you will replace the Flamenco Sketches master take with the alternative take.

Mike

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"Freddie Freeloader" has overdubbed vocals in Chinese...

Guy

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Ah so, number one fan

[Chuck Nessa]

Question for traders/collectors of "unauthorized" music: If you think Kind of Blue is a classic recording, on which tunes does Jimmy Cobb play brushes? If you don't have a clue.................. No fair checking after the fact.

If you don't know, you need to experience the recordings you own. If you are a "big" collector of "grey maket" stuff in this style, you need to examine your thought processes.

[relyles]

Question for traders/collectors of "unauthorized" music: If you think Kind of Blue is a classic recording, on which tunes does Jimmy Cobb play brushes? If you don't have a clue.................. No fair checking after the fact.

If you don't know, you need to experience the recordings you own.  If you are a "big" collector of "grey maket" stuff in this style, you need to examine your thought processes.

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I don't completely understand the point you are trying to make.

[Chuck Nessa]

My mistake. I thought you'd get it.

[paul secor]

Question for traders/collectors of "unauthorized" music: If you think Kind of Blue is a classic recording, on which tunes does Jimmy Cobb play brushes? If you don't have a clue.................. No fair checking after the fact.

If you don't know, you need to experience the recordings you own.  If you are a "big" collector of "grey maket" stuff in this style, you need to examine your thought processes.

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I don't completely understand the point you are trying to make.

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Seems pretty obvious to me - and good advice to boot.

[Guy Berger]

Question for traders/collectors of "unauthorized" music: If you think Kind of Blue is a classic recording, on which tunes does Jimmy Cobb play brushes? If you don't have a clue.................. No fair checking after the fact.

If you don't know, you need to experience the recordings you own.  If you are a "big" collector of "grey maket" stuff in this style, you need to examine your thought processes.

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I actually agree with Chuck's point - better to get to know the recordings you do have (official or otherwise) than to constantly accumulate a steady stream of recordings that end up being played once and are then tossed to the bottom of the bin. But this applies to all music, not just the "unauthorized" kind.

Guy

[relyles]

Question for traders/collectors of "unauthorized" music: If you think Kind of Blue is a classic recording, on which tunes does Jimmy Cobb play brushes? If you don't have a clue.................. No fair checking after the fact.

If you don't know, you need to experience the recordings you own.  If you are a "big" collector of "grey maket" stuff in this style, you need to examine your thought processes.

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I actually agree with Chuck's point - better to get to know the recordings you do have (official or otherwise) than to constantly accumulate a steady stream of recordings that end up being played once and are then tossed to the bottom of the bin. But this applies to all music, not just the "unauthorized" kind.

Guy

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That I can understand and agree with.

[Brad]

This seems to be a problem with many of us. We don't appreciate all that we have to really undrestand it. I think back in the early developing days of jazz where people didn't have as much disposable cash as now, they'd really study a recording, listening to it forwards and backwards and ask why is so and so doing what he's doing and how he's doing it. I'm not sure we're thinking or doing about that kind of thing anymore.

[ejp626]

This seems to be a problem with many of us.  We don't appreciate all that we have to really undrestand it. 

Guilty. I think I have managed to listen to everything in my collection once, but probably 40% I have listened to one time, 30% twice, and the remaining 30% I am more familiar with. On the other hand, I am not constantly on the prowl for CDRs either. Still, I was very grateful someone (not on this board) hooked me up with Hill's Dance with Death until it was rereleased.

[jazzypaul]

I assume you will dupe from disc sources, use the Adderly spelling, will have side one tracks play at the wrong speed, and will credit Miles Davis only as composer of Blue In Green.

Oh, and you will replace the Flamenco Sketches master take with the alternative take.

Mike

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"Freddie Freeloader" has overdubbed vocals in Chinese...

Guy

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Good to see that Jon Hendricks vocals on this one are seeing the light of day again.

[andybleaden]

I see that I'm going to have to put some more thought into this.  Can y'all give me some time before freaking out to develop a fair rule about this sort of thing?

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Well.........okay, but can we find something else to freak out about while we wait?

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Well in that case can we discuss how somebody can locate a nice recording of Inner Glow by Bobby Hutcherson for me