Ken Burns, "JAZZ"

[Guest Mnytime]

And another thing: Why the hell didn't Burns & co. interview more MUSICIANS???

The did interview a good many musicians. There is a lot more footage with Jackie Mclean and Lester Bowie for example that was not included because it didn't fit the version of Jazz that was being told. From what I have heard there is a lot of taped interviews with musicians that was not included.

But really who wants to hear from Musicians that actually might have been there when they can hear from Oasie Davis or Lindy dancers.

Who wants to hear about Sidney Bechet or hear his music when they can hear about his dog?

The Lindy dancers got more time and credit than most of the musicians mentioned.

Hey lets have WM let the listeners hear how Buddy Bolden played.

Edited June 12, 2003 by Mnytime

[Soul Stream]

And another thing: Why the hell didn't Burns & co. interview more MUSICIANS???

When it comes to the Music Business And All Things Related, musicians are (usually) a necessary evil at best. Once the music gets made, they have served their purpose. Breeders, that's what musicians are, professional baby-makers for "the industry". Why would you want to interview THAT when there are obviously more qualifed people to speak with?

another insight only a musician could give. or as i heard it put once so accurately..."musicians are...a soundtrack for beer."(meaning, musicians on the bandstand are a necessary evil. there so the club owner can sell more beer.)

[Guest Mnytime]

It's not just limited to Jazz. Pick a documentary by Burns and it's the same third rate fact checking and Burns version of history across the board.

http://www.twainquotes.com/burnsmistakes.html

An interesting quote from Burns.

"When confronted by the dilemma of historic fact as opposed to artistic and moral effect, Ken Burns told Bernard Weisberger:

Let me answer you with a quote from ... Francis Parkman: "Faithfulness to the truth of history involves far more than research ... into special facts. Such facts may be detailed with the most minute exactness, and yet the narrative, taken as a whole, may be unmeaning or untrue. The narrator must seek to imbue himself with the life and spirit of the time." Too much good factual history seems untrue because it doesn't resonate, and all we've tried to do filmically is to be true to the spirit of Parkman's plea."

[jacman]

And as for Branford’s “bullshit” quote... Branford was trying to say the idea of listeners having to prepare themselves before listening to Cecil (or jazz?) was nonsense –not Cecil’s music. The interview transcripts bare this out.

Branford discussed this in a recent magazine interview (can't remember which one tho). his quote was edited to fit the agenda.

it would have been nice if they had let at least 1 tune play all the way thru.

[Guest Mnytime]

Branford discussed this in a recent magazine interview (can't remember which one tho).  his quote was edited to fit the agenda.

The entire 19 hours was meant to fit the Murray/Crouch/WM agenda.

Edited June 12, 2003 by Mnytime

[shawn·m]

But you gotta admit that thanks to GM, PBS, Park Foundation, The Corporation for Public Broadcasting, The Pew Charitable Trusts, The Doris Duke Charitable Foundation, Louisiana Department of Culture, Recreation and Tourism, The National Endowment for the Humanities, The Arthur Vining Davis Foundations, The Reva and David Logan Foundation, The John D. and Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation, The National Endowment for the Arts and Helen and Peter Bing... the Making Of Jazz documentary was kinda nice.

[P.D.]

Regardless of all the debate, this is still the best documentation presentation of jazz on tv... 19 hours.

I would bet my entire record collection that if any of the programmes hardest critics on this board, or any other, were given the oppertunity to produce such a series, the resultant outcry would be pretty much the same.

Why wasn't Jabbo Smith given his full due Dammit

[BruceH]

When it comes to the Music Business And All Things Related, musicians are (usually) a necessary evil at best. Once the music gets made, they have served their purpose. Breeders, that's what musicians are, professional baby-makers for "the industry". Why would you want to interview THAT when there are obviously more qualifed people to speak with?

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr..........

[catesta]

I've only watched it all the way through once.

As I recall, my biggest problem like others have mentioned here was with the lack of more commentary from musicians. It was nice to see Artie Shaw, but I thought Marsalis, and Crouch were used way too much.

With all the greats still alive today, and able to give real color, Burns could have done a much better job on that part.

As for the rest of it, I neither love it, nor hate it.

Edited June 12, 2003 by catesta

[JSngry]

When it comes to the Music Business And All Things Related, musicians are (usually) a necessary evil at best. Once the music gets made, they have served their purpose. Breeders, that's what musicians are, professional baby-makers for "the industry". Why would you want to interview THAT when there are obviously more qualifed people to speak with?

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr..........

??????

[chris olivarez]

I missed this the first time around.I'm interested in watching it and drawing my own conclusions.

[Christiern]

...it would have been nice if they had let at least 1 tune play all the way thru.

Yes, that would have been nice, but let's be fair here--they only had 19 hours. B)

[shawn·m]

See, that’s what’s so cool about the DVD. You do get a few uninterrupted performances.

[BruceH]

As I recall, they ALMOST played Hawkins' 1939 "Body and Soul" all the way through. Thanks a lot guys.

[wesbed]

I've never seen a second of the Ken Burns JAZZ series. I was considering renting the first two disks from my local Blockbuster store.

Is it just my computer or does this thread seem broken and oddly formatted (especially on the first page)?

[scottb]

I remember when this one first aired I was upset that I had missed the first 3 or 4 shows. When I tuned in and they were still talking about Louis I knew it wasn't the show I was looking for and changed the channel and have never seen it to this day.

[gdogus]

I've never seen a second of the Ken Burns JAZZ series. I was considering renting the first two disks from my local Blockbuster store.

Is it just my computer or does this thread seem broken and oddly formatted (especially on the first page)?

Yoes, it seems oddly formatted to me too.

[jazzbo]

Interesting Scott, because for me probably the best part of the series was the attention given to Louis!

[Chrome]

Brush with greatness (?) story: I recently had the chance to interview Burns about the Jack Johnson film for my job, and I got the feeling that he's really not a jazz fan per se ... it seemed like he liked the music, but was more interested in how the it affected/affects the development of the U.S.

I, for one, approached the "Jazz" series as if it were about jazz with some American History thrown into the mix, but I think for Burns his films taken together are about American History with some Jazz (or Baseball or Civil War) thrown into the mix.

[wesbed]

I watched the first two episodes last night (my Sunday night's entertainment). The first two episodes focus on New Orleans jazz and the effect, in Chicago and New York, of Armstrong and Ellington.

Keeping in mind that the JAZZ series is meant for the general public, I though the first two installments were quite good. I thought Wynton spoke intelligently, with passion, and offered some good insights into the music and the culture of jazz.

[Alexander]

I thought Wynton spoke intelligently, with passion, and offered some good insights into the music and the culture of jazz.

Agreed, for the most part. But "jazz objectifies America" still doesn't mean anything.

[Dr. Rat]

I thought Wynton spoke intelligently, with passion, and offered some good insights into the music and the culture of jazz.

Agreed, for the most part. But "jazz objectifies America" still doesn't mean anything.

I think he meant to say "embodies."

--eric

[Larry Kart]

Forget about there being no, or almost no, complete performances -- I recall that a Charlie Parker solo (maybe "Ko Ko" or "Scrapple from the Apple") that was being played while they showed images of I don't remember what was tape-looped!

[nmorin]

Interesting Scott, because for me probably the best part of the series was the attention given to Louis!

I agree with that totally, but from an "opportunity cost" standpoint, every second spent on Pops from the late the 1950s to the 1970s was time taken away from the evolution in jazz over that period.

[Alexander]

I thought Wynton spoke intelligently, with passion, and offered some good insights into the music and the culture of jazz.

Agreed, for the most part. But "jazz objectifies America" still doesn't mean anything.

I think he meant to say "embodies."

--eric

Or, even more likely, EXEMPLIFIES. I'm not trying to slam Wynton for this, but rather Burns who chose to make that obvious misstatement the opening line of his ten part film...