Roy Hargrove - RH Factor or Not?

[Guest che]

Been tryin to get my dissertation done for days, and today I am stressed and so I put on the album by Roy Hargrove 'The RH Factor' Now when I first bought this album I did not like it. I felt it was trying to do too much for me. Very soulful and lots of R&B and funk.

Now some of his earlier stuff ' Diamond in the Rough' and 'With The Tenors of Our Time' (with Joe Henderson and Branford Marsalis), show a great purity and brilliance in his playing.

But as I have listened to it it is growing on me.

Anyone familier with Roy and his music or have an opinion on the 'RH Factor'?

Oh well back to the work

Che.

[JSngry]

I have the STRENGTH EP, and like it just fine. For this kind of a bag, I personally like the new Russell Gunn thing (ETHNOMUSICOLOGY VOL 4) better - more guts, more edge, etc. But the RH Factor thing is cool too. Kinda "pop"-y, but the grooves are good, and that's the object of that particular game afaic.

It's actually nice to hear a player born in 1969 play music based on things that happened after he was born for a change.

So, what are you doing your dissertation on?

[JSngry]

Now when I first bought this album I did not like it. I felt it was trying to do too much for me. Very soulful and lots of R&B and funk.

Maybe we have a language barrier here, so help me out, please. What do you mean that you "felt it was trying to do too much for me"?

Serious question.

[Guest che]

I have the STRENGTH EP, and like it just fine. For this kind of a bag, I personally like the new Russell Gunn thing (ETHNOMUSICOLOGY VOL 4) better - more guts, more edge, etc. But the RH Factor thing is cool too. Kinda "pop"-y, but the grooves are good, and that's the object of that particular game afaic.

It's actually nice to hear a player born in 1969 play music based on things that happened after he was born for a change.

So, what are you doing your dissertation on?

Thanks for the reply and I agree about being contemporary.

I am researching factors that help childen survive PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder).

Che.

[JSngry]

Sounds like admirable work. Went through some PTSD fallout w/one of my kids 7-8 years ago, and could have really used more/better information than was available at the time. Hope you do well.

[Guest che]

Now when I first  bought this album I did not like it. I felt it was trying to do too much for me. Very soulful and lots of R&B and funk.

Maybe we have a language barrier here, so help me out, please. What do you mean that you "felt it was trying to do too much for me"?

Serious question.

I guess what I meant was that I was confused as to what the focus of the album was. It had lots of different things on it. Some jazz, soul, some rap, some funk and some R&B. Now this made the whole project for me confusing, but worth the listen.

Che.

[JSngry]

I think the focus of this music is to just get a good party vibe going. For somebody of Roy's age and background, that almost has to include hip-hop & R&B vibes. I mean, he was 16 in 1985. I really don't think that when he was hanging out with his homies that they were all groovin' on Kenny Dorham, ya' know? Maybe in SCHOOL or at home while practicing, but not on the corner after school and after practicing. In Dallas, he'd have been a LONELY young man if he had done that!

That's what I mean about younger people playing their own music, not their father's (or even their grandfather's!). Play what you know, play what you live, don't just play waht you learn. If that involves electricity, funk, and rappers, hey, so be it. It don't bother me any, not as long as the intellegence stays in it, not as long as the musicianship is good, and not as long as the grooves are real, and not pseudo.

[Guest che]

I think the focus of this music is to just get a good party vibe going. For somebody of Roy's age and background, that almost has to include hip-hop & R&B vibes. I mean, he was 16 in 1985. I really don't think that when he was hanging out with his homies that they were all groovin' on Kenny Dorham, ya' know? Maybe in SCHOOL or at home while practicing, but not on the corner after school and after practicing. In Dallas, he'd have been a LONELY young man if he had done that!

That's what I mean about younger people playing their own music, not their father's (or even their grandfather's!). Play what you know, play what you live, don't just play waht you learn. If that involves electricity, funk, and rappers, hey, so be it. It don't bother me any, not as long as the intellegence stays in it, not as long as the musicianship is good, and not as long as the grooves are real, and not pseudo.

I guess I was suggesting, and you have made me think a little more on this, that the focus of his music has changed. In his earlier albums and early in his career he had played with a diverse group of people, these include Jackie McLean and T.S Monk, to more contempory artists like Christian McBride.

The albums I have and not really like the fusion he seem to be creating in 'The RH Factor', in fact in the early albums he seems not to be interested in this at all, and seemed like a hard swinging, post-bob kind of sound.

Well I guess people change.

Che.

[Elissa]

Roy, to my mind the swingingest trumpet player around, intended this record to be a big, bad Texas funk album, which he's right, the world could use. However I don't think it was a unqualified success on those terms, as it was pretty thoroughly bleached of alot of its formidable groove by producers frightened by how actually badd Roy is. Seemed to me they dumbed down what could have been a booming cruise disc, great driving and dance music, in fear of his being ostracized from the jazz community. It sounded so different and so great before it was mixed beyond recognition - and still, Roy is one of the few musicians making such valiant attempts to both bring real music to hip hop sensibilities and danceable groove to those who insist on musicians playing instruments. I hope he gives it another go. Seeing him on tour for this album was a grand occasion - in NY he and all the band played up at the Apollo, opening for Maceo, and it was a killing show. Prince was there and brought Maceo out his horn.

[Guest che]

Roy, to my mind the swingingest trumpet player around, intended this record to be a big, bad Texas funk album, which he's right, the world could use. However I don't think it was a unqualified success on those terms, as it was pretty thoroughly bleached of alot of its formidable groove by producers frightened by how actually badd Roy is. Seemed to me they dumbed down what could have been a booming cruise disc, great driving and dance music, in fear of his being ostracized from the jazz community. It sounded so different and so great before it was mixed beyond recognition - and still, Roy is one of the few musicians making such valiant attempts to both bring real music to hip hop sensibilities and danceable groove to those who insist on musicians playing instruments. I hope he gives it another go. Seeing him on tour for this album was a grand occasion - in NY he and all the band played up at the Apollo, opening for Maceo, and it was a killing show. Prince was there and brought Maceo out his horn.

Elis.

Great post and I enjoyed your comments. I agree that this album for me did not work, it was ok but a little confusing to my way of thinking. There have been other attempts at 'fusion'. For example Swweto Kinch the young Sax player from the UK, pften blends hip hop, rap with jazz with for me more success than Roy did on this album.

Che

[Aggie87]

It sounded so different and so great before it was mixed beyond recognition

Are you saying there is an alternate/earlier version of this album available somewhere?

[Elissa]

Unfortunately not. He played it for me soon after it was recorded.

Edited February 24, 2005 by Elis

[Durium]

I've seen Roy playing many times in our small jazz club. He's great. I saw him with his Crisol band and I still think that was his greatest group. And many times with his "traditional" quintet. And I heard him with RH Factor. His experiences with the RH Factor isn't my piece of cake either, but I enjoyed the three hours concert of the band thanks to the wonderful trumpet of Roy.

If you're anxious some images have been posted on My Webpage. Get inside and find the Roy Hargrove sites.

I do have a lot (not all) recordings from him, from the very beginning up to now.

Edited March 19, 2005 by Durium

[Guest che]

I've seen Roy playing many times in our small jazz club. He's great. I saw him with his Crisol band and I still think that was his greatest group. And many times with his "traditional" quintet. And I heard him with RH Factor. His experiences with the RH Factor isn't my piece of cake either, but I enjoyed the three hours concert of the band thanks to the wonderful trumpet of Roy.

If you're anxious some images have been posted on My Webpage. Get inside and find the Roy Hargrove sites.

I do have a lot (not all) recordings from him, from the very beginning up to now.

Durium.

Thanks for the pics.

Che.

[ghost of miles]

Unfortunately not. He played it for me soon after it was recorded.

Wow.. probably too much to hope that this earlier version will ever find release status some day.

[Jazzmoose]

I must admit I haven't heard this one, although I also like the Tenors of Our Time disc. My favorite so far from Hargrove is Habana. If Jim is comparing it to Russell Gunn's Ethnomusicology stuff, I have to admit I'm finally opening my mind to the type of music and starting to enjoy it. I'll have to give it a try sometime.

[JSngry]

Well, the RH Factor thing is more "pop" in nature/orientation/intent, whereas the Gunn thing is more about serious blowing in a more "contemporary" context. I'd like to hear Roy do the latter, because I think he's a potentially stronger player in that vein. But the pop thing could work for him too, I think. On the EP, it does at times, but far from always.

[LennyH]

I saw Roy with Herbie and Michael Brecker a couple of weeks ago (also Teri Lyne Carrington and Scott Colley/Bass). Roy was SO good. The show was very uneven. Herbie and Michael had a few moments, but Roy was consistenly great from start to finish.

Definitely going to pick up more of his stuff.

[RudyC]

Roy hargroves the vibe is such a cool album!! Track 2, Cryism, i want to do with my group pretty bad but i dont have the time to transcribe it right now!

[Guest che]

I saw Roy with Herbie and Michael Brecker a couple of weeks ago (also Teri Lyne Carrington and Scott Colley/Bass). Roy was SO good. The show was very uneven. Herbie and Michael had a few moments, but Roy was consistenly great from start to finish.

Definitely going to pick up more of his stuff.

He has a date in the UK soon and I was thinking of checking it out?

Che.