A warning about a board member -- pryan

[Bol]

This is a warning about a seller on this Board -- pryan. Because his actions in connection with a recent transaction seem to me to fall well below the standard that I’ve come to expect from tens of past transactions with other Board members, I am posting this warning, with much reluctance.

Last month, pryan put on sale some OOP Mosaic sets. In response to my question about the condition of his Sam Rivers set, pryan assured me that everything is in excellent condition. On Jan. 20, he and I reached an agreement on a partial sale/partial trade. He was to send me the Rivers set, and I was to send him 3 Japanese CDs and a postal money order for $41. Included in that sum was $5 that pryan demanded when I asked for insurance. We agreed to send the shipments in the next 2 days.

I sent my shipment out the next day, but pryan did not mail the Mosaic set until 2 weeks later -- Feb. 4. Meanwhile, when the set did not arrive as expected, I started to e-mail pryan asking whether he mailed the set. He completely ignored my e-mails and did not respond.

On Feb. 5, when I noticed some new posts that pryan had made on this Board, I made a post on one of his threads asking whether he had received my e-mails. In response, he made a terse post saying that he had received the messages, and that the Mosaic set had been sent. On Feb. 6, pryan finally e-mailed me saying that he sent the set on Feb. 4 and that he was too busy to send it earlier.

The set finally arrived on Feb. 14. The set was packed in a thin cardboard box, without any other protection such as bubble wrap, a plastic bag, etc. Perhaps as a result of this, the Moaic box has a couple of bumps and wrinkles on the front picture panel resulting from the bumps. The front panel also has some scratches. The booklet also has a bump on one corner. The shipment, as far as I can see, also was not insured.

On Feb. 16, after listening to the CDs to make sure that they were not defective, I sent an e-mail to pryan pointing out the discrepancies between his description of the set and the condition in which I received it, and also the fact that the shipment was uninsured. I asked for $15 to cover the insurance I paid for but did not get, and also the reduction in the value of the set. No response from pryan.

Edited February 20, 2005 by Bol

[ASNL77]

+1 I agreed to buy Pryan's Mosaic Woody Shaw set on February 7th. As I live in Europe, pryan needed to check the cost of shipping. He got back to me on February 9th to tell me he hadn't checked with the post office yet.Since then and despite having PMed him three times I haven't heard from pryan. He has posted on a few threads in the last few days but he has ignored my PMs. Not exactly the kind of transactions I would expect to have with fellow board members. I have bought a lot of stuff recently from different board members and it has always been smooth and easy. Not the kind of stuff I enjoy posting here but I assume other members need to know about things like these

[sheldonm]

I also have an issue but will hold off on posting the details; giving him one more opportunity to respond to my PM.

Mark

[connoisseur series500]

Hmm, this is not good. I think I've dealt with Paul before and things went fine, but you guys have legitimate gripes.

Thanks for airing it out. We need to know these things.

[undergroundagent]

This thread is not in good taste. If I could make a suggestion to the board moderators. Would it be possible to set up a "feedback system" where people can report on their transactions?

These threads serve no purpose other than to get everyone riled up.

Edited February 20, 2005 by undergroundagent

[sheldonm]

This thread is not in good taste. If I could make a suggestion to the board moderators. Would it be possible to set up a "feedback system" where people can report on their transactions?

These threads serve no purpose other than to get everyone riled up.

...what's not in good taste is not finishing a transaction as promised or not replying to email/PM while you continue to post. I think for the most part; posters here do all they can to avoid these situations.

Mark

[undergroundagent]

Mark,

There is no need to call people out publicly. It's embarrasing for everyone involved. Take it from me...it never works out, and everyone just gets more pissed off. I think a feedback forum, similar to Ebay, would be very useful on this board. That way there is no embarrassment, and sellers can be held accountable.

I will say there is no excuse for improper grading of cds/lps/etc. Nevertheless, cooler heads must prevail in these situations. I don't think calling anyone out is going to make them move any faster to appease the situation. If anything, it just makes matters worse.

[Dan Gould]

This thread is not in good taste. If I could make a suggestion to the board moderators. Would it be possible to set up a "feedback system" where people can report on their transactions?

These threads serve no purpose other than to get everyone riled up.

Refresh my memory (maybe I'm completely offbase here) but weren't you involved, as complainant or complainee, in one of these threads in the not-too distant past?

[undergroundagent]

Dan:

Hence, my statement, "take it from me." I've been called out more times than I care to recall on this board. It's way off base. You should know better than anyone (i.e. your issues with Chuck Nessa) that these dicussions go nowhere.

People need to show some understanding and just relax. There should be no debate as to how any transaction goes down. That's for the parties involved. If one wants to know whether they should buy from a seller, set up a forum where people can review transactions and decide based on that.

Edited February 20, 2005 by undergroundagent

[sheldonm]

Mark,

There is no need to call people out publicly. It's embarrasing for everyone involved. Take it from me...it never works out, and everyone just gets more pissed off. I think a feedback forum, similar to Ebay, would be very useful on this board. That way there is no embarrassment, and sellers can be held accountable.

I will say there is no excuse for improper grading of cds/lps/etc. Nevertheless, cooler heads must prevail in these situations. I don't think calling anyone out is going to make them move any faster to appease the situation. If anything, it just makes matters worse.

Alan,

I have no issues with a forum as you suggest and am not pissed off or outraged. It's a transaction that went bad and I'm over it. When people buy and sell here, they always wonder who they are dealing with if they haven't dealt with them before (at least I do). I usually give the person the benefit of the doubt. In some cases you get burnt. When you see others that have had similar issues, it's good to know. Maybe there are issues preventing Pyran from responding, who knows!

Mark

[sheldonm]

That's for the parties involved.

...if the other party responds to your emails!

[pryan]

I have also received "damaged goods" in the past, once from a prominent poster who will remain annonymous. I did not, however, choose to vent in this fashion, which does show a lack of respect and indeed can be harmful to the person who is targeted. Not to mention the fact that some of the information in the initial post is false and misleading.

[ASNL77]

I have also received "damaged goods" in the past, once from a prominent poster who will remain annonymous. I did not, however, choose to vent in this fashion, which does show a lack of respect and indeed can be harmful to the person who is targeted. Not to mention the fact that some of the information in the initial post is false and misleading.

Well, I have never sold anything here so could you please answer my PMs? There is nothing personal here. It does make sense to let other board members know things like these. This thread would not exist if everything had been done the way they should be done.

[Bol]

I have also received "damaged goods" in the past, once from a prominent poster who will remain annonymous. I did not, however, choose to vent in this fashion, which does show a lack of respect and indeed can be harmful to the person who is targeted. Not to mention the fact that some of the information in the initial post is false and misleading.

I can only say that I've tried to state the facts as accurately as I can. And I gave you sufficient opportunity to address my concerns. As I said in my message to you of Feb. 16, I was going to wait for your response for 3 days before assuming that you will not be responding.

[Son-of-a-Weizen]

There was a great cable show last night about the Red Piranha in Brazil when the rivers swell and the floodwaters beneath the egret nesting grounds team with life.

[etherbored]

There was a great cable show last night about the Red Piranha in Brazil when the rivers swell and the floodwaters beneath the egret nesting grounds team with life.

,

-e-

[Brad]

I don't think we should have a feedback system here only because I don't see it as a function of this board. I see merits in both sides of the argument (handling it privately vs. airing it). However, since this isn't ebay and if a seller doesn't respond to emails or complaints (and I'm not trying to inject myself into the dealing Paul may have had with other people), I don't see much choice but to air this in this forum. Hopefully, in so doing, it will be resolved to everyone's satisfaction.

[connoisseur series500]

Underground is a friend of mine, but I disagree with him on this.

You bet this stuff should be aired in public. I believe that any trading impropriety on the part of a boardmember should be made public. We trade here with complete integrity and trust.

Having said that, I do believe that it would be necessary to try and work things out privately FIRST, before airing it on the board. Apparently, this had been tried, but the pms and emails hadn't been returned. Evidently, there was no other choice.

Bol and Mark are both frequent traders on this board. They have the right to expect fair trading, and hopefully, they will get it from Paul.

I hope that everything gets settled to everyone's satisfaction.

[connoisseur series500]

Sorry to leave you out of my last post, ASNL77, but I hope your case is settled appropriately as well.

[ASNL77]

Sorry to leave you out of my last post, ASNL77, but I hope your case is settled appropriately as well.

Thanks. So do I and that is all I am asking for.

[Dan Gould]

UA,

There's a big difference between ongoing differences of opinion/personality conflicts and letting people know about transactions that are not satisfactory.

How would a "Feedback" Forum work? As Brad says, it is not the function of this board. These kinds of threads are the only way to find out about people who have questionable selling/trading practices.

I think the complainants here have every right to bring it to the attention of the board in general if they have gotten no response to PMs or emails.

Funny how pryan appears to defend himself so quickly when he apparently can't be bothered to respond to multiple PMs. That being said, I have no idea where the fault lies here, but if it is true that he has agreed to transactions, not lived up to his end, and does not respond to private messages, then by all means, that should be brought to the attention of the board.

[desertblues]

I completely understand the frustrations of board members when this kind of transaction goes wrong, especially when the problem is due to lack of communication by the seller (which is what this sounds like). I am a record collector and occasionally an ebay seller. I have had hundreds of transactions with other collectors and jazz lovers and have a 100% positive feedback rating of something like 430 deals since 2001. It has been rare, but a few times I have had to deal with an unsatisfied buyer and on 2 or 3 occasions given a partial refund and once had a record returned for a refund (it was fine & got a higher bid when relisted!). When you do these deals you are acting as a merchant & it is your responsibility to complete them to the buyers satisfaction - on this board it is also a matter of trust. I have had great results buying/trading from board members here and hate to hear this kind of thing happens. Anyway, sorry to be so wordy but if you are going to be a seller here you need to follow through. Hope it works out for all parties!

[Man with the Golden Arm]

posting this on the board is perfectly fine! some of you guys act like your selling the holy grail at times and posting the fact that some one has no respect for a transaction and taking someone's money as if it is due to them is sometimes the only way to vent out the fact that you got hosed a bit. if your going to sell a mosaic set then put it in a nice box, use some old sunday funnies and a little tape and get on with it. not that hard to do.

[Morganized]

I am very happy to report that I have purchased and sold a number of items on this Board and have never had a problem with a seller or a buyer. I have made some good friends by doing so.Usually I just check to see how many post the person has. If he/she(? we need more female members) has a large number of posts I figure I am safe. My theory is he would rather do the right thing than be castigated by fellow Board members for failing to follow through on the deal.I remember Aric and the Monkey Business(as it euphemistically became known) episode and am always comforted. If a regular poster is willing to never post again without appropriate abuse from fellow Board members, I would say they must really, really, need the money or cd in question.

I usually try to keep all the pms involved in the transaction and I would not hesitate a moment for "outing" a Board member who seems to have an integrity deficiency. I mean really guys, we are talking about CDs here. Is it really worth NOT doing the right thing in this instance. Answering pm's and email seems pretty reasonable to me!

This Board is a great place where folks can come to discuss the music we all love. We may not always agree about the music but most of us can agree on things like common courtesy,honesty and integrity. Just as friends don't let friends drive drunk, I think friends try to protect friends from those who do not share these common values.

Unfortunately, I recognize some of the Board members who appear to be having problems in this instance. Based upon my past experience with them, I would have to rely heavily upon their view of events.

I would hope we would never have to post this type of thread on this Board but unfortunately I guess at times it is unavoidable. I would nonetheless like to thank those who do however. I not only think that it is appropriate, but it is required in order to alert fellow Board members. It is the only self policing mechanism that we have.

Now lets get back to arguing about jazz.

Edited February 21, 2005 by Morganized

[robviti]

peer pressure - pressure from one's peers to behave in a manner similar or acceptable to them.

i think this kind of thing could work if we try to keep the comments respectful and on topic.