The Mule Posted March 13, 2003 Report Posted March 13, 2003 Came across this long OOP cd in the used bins a couple of weeks back and I can't find any information about it other than what appears in the scant liner notes. It's a soundtrack for a very obscure independent film from 1962 called TRACKS IN THE SAND. The musicians are Yusef Lateef, Jimmy Knepper, Richard Williams, Tommy Flanagan, and Max Roach. Most of the cues are very short (some of them 15 seconds), but there a few lengthier cues where the players get to stretch out a little. All in all not uninteresting music. Problem is I can find NOTHING about this movie or the recording session (and I have quite a few film reference books at my disposal). Most frustrating is that the liners contains the intriguing line: "send $12.95 for a deluxe 544 book containing the screenplay and 270 photos from (the film)." Little chance that's still valid..... Anybody know anything about this mysterious session? Quote
paul secor Posted March 13, 2003 Report Posted March 13, 2003 I'm not sure, but I seem to recall a review in Cadence some years ago. I'll try and see what I can find, but I dont have the indexes, so it may be tough. Perhaps someone else can take it from here. Quote
J Larsen Posted March 13, 2003 Report Posted March 13, 2003 (edited) I read online that the film reels were lost shortly after it debuted. Seems odd that they wouldn't have a couple of backups... Evidently the film won some awards at a NY film festival. Edited March 13, 2003 by J Larsen Quote
The Mule Posted March 13, 2003 Author Report Posted March 13, 2003 Well, I appreciate the tip, Paul. When you say you saw it in Cadence "some years ago" would that be the early 90s? I think that's about the time the cd was released. J, as to it being odd that the film reels could have been lost, I don't find it that unusual. If it was a truly independent film back in the early 60s it wouldn't surprise me that there'd only be one print and the filmmakers might not have been able to afford to strike another one from the negative if they didn't have any kind of distributor. Some good clues here, but this one continues to be a real mystery... Quote
The Mule Posted March 13, 2003 Author Report Posted March 13, 2003 Thanks. Nice to be back. Things seem calmer in the new venue....for now. I just have to keep reminding myself to stay away from the bar brawls... Quote
brownie Posted March 17, 2003 Report Posted March 17, 2003 Got this CD a couple of years ago (a French Virgin release). Played it once. Found the music intriguing and forgot all about it until this thread came up. The liner notes also lists bass player Arthur Phipps. Phipps' name does not appear in the Tom Lord discography where the session is not listed under a musicians' name but simply under 'Track in the Sands'. The session was recorded in March 1962 in New York (at RKO Pathe Studios according to the liner notes). This ia quite an intriguing date. I may be offtrack (in the sands but I have a strong feeling that Charles Mingus had something to do with this music. The lineup is very Mingus Workshop-like. The music is quite Minguish. There is even an unlisted alto player who sounds very much like Charles McPherson, who played with Mingus at the time. I even hear Mingus bass lines on several of the tracks. The music composer is listed as one Charles Mills who left no trace anywhere. Charles Mingus was the one who found the Charlie Chan alias for the Debut release of the Jazz at Massey Hall Quintet of the Year LP. Charlie Chan Parker. Charles Mills Mingus. There is no mention of this music in the Mingus bios I have read. Brian Prestley's book was written before the release of the music. Gene Santoro's 'Myself When I'm Real' ignores this but the Santoro book is far from perfect as an accurate biography (he even confuses Oscar Pettiford and Oscar Peterson). Might be worth checking with someone like Max Roach on this soundtrack. Also the liner notes list Albert and David Maysles as having taken part in the film photography. The 'Tracks in the Sand' film does not appear in their filmography. Talk about a mystery film. I'll file the CD under Charles Mingus now unless proven wrong. Quote
jazzbo Posted March 17, 2003 Report Posted March 17, 2003 Wow brownie, very interesting; thanks for sharing that ! Quote
Rooster_Ties Posted October 12, 2004 Report Posted October 12, 2004 Problem is I can find NOTHING about this movie or the recording session (and I have quite a few film reference books at my disposal). Most frustrating is that the liners contains the intriguing line: "send $12.95 for a deluxe 544 book containing the screenplay and 270 photos from (the film)." Little chance that's still valid..... Has anybody ever seen the book?? I used to have this CD, years ago, but don't seem to anymore. (Guess I traded it, though I don't remember specifically doing so.) I'm guessing the movie would have been pretty interesting -- shame that it was lost. Quote
Bluerein Posted October 22, 2004 Report Posted October 22, 2004 Rooster I believe I have your copy now (bought it second hand through Amazom.com) but it's scratched like hell......how do you look after your cds???? Cheers, Reinier Quote
Rooster_Ties Posted August 24, 2006 Report Posted August 24, 2006 Problem is I can find NOTHING about this movie or the recording session (and I have quite a few film reference books at my disposal). Most frustrating is that the liners contains the intriguing line: "send $12.95 for a deluxe 544 book containing the screenplay and 270 photos from (the film)." Little chance that's still valid..... Has anybody ever seen the book?? I used to have this CD, years ago, but don't seem to anymore. (Guess I traded it, though I don't remember specifically doing so.) I'm guessing the movie would have been pretty interesting -- shame that it was lost. Thread came up searching for something else. Has anybody ever seen the book?? Quote
JSngry Posted March 18, 2015 Report Posted March 18, 2015 Charles Mills appears to have been a real guy: http://musicalassumptions.blogspot.com/2012/09/charles-mills.html Quote
king ubu Posted March 18, 2015 Report Posted March 18, 2015 Wow, intriguing thread that I missed back then (or forgot in the meantime).Just found this (brownie seems to "know his stuff", huh? he sure does!):http://trendy-movie-library.blogspot.ch/2012/04/yusef-lateef-jimmy-knepper-max-roach-pt.html Quote
kh1958 Posted March 18, 2015 Report Posted March 18, 2015 Still available cheaply on amazon. http://www.amazon.com/Tracks-Sand-Original-Picture-Soundtrack/dp/B000005TB2/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1426683823&sr=1-1&keywords=Charles+Mills+Tracks+in+the+Sand Quote
sonnymax Posted March 18, 2015 Report Posted March 18, 2015 (edited) Edited March 18, 2015 by sonnymax Quote
king ubu Posted March 19, 2015 Report Posted March 19, 2015 Still available cheaply on amazon. http://www.amazon.com/Tracks-Sand-Original-Picture-Soundtrack/dp/B000005TB2/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1426683823&sr=1-1&keywords=Charles+Mills+Tracks+in+the+Sand I have a copy on the way (via priceminister.com - european a-sites don't have such good offers and transatlantic shipping costs exploded). Quote
AllenLowe Posted March 19, 2015 Report Posted March 19, 2015 (edited) just ordered mine. I know we have speculated that it's Mingus but for some reason I keep thinking of Kenyon Hopkins. Edited March 19, 2015 by AllenLowe Quote
chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez Posted March 21, 2015 Report Posted March 21, 2015 very interesting Quote
Don Brown Posted March 21, 2015 Report Posted March 21, 2015 I no longer have the LP so I'm unable to check but I seem to recall that the title track on Yusef Lateef's Riverside album, The Centaur and the Phoenix, was written by Charles Mills and adapted from his Crazy Horse Symphony. Quote
medjuck Posted March 23, 2015 Report Posted March 23, 2015 (edited) Here's info on Charles MIlls: http://www.discogs.com/artist/1500077-Charles-Mills and http://composers.com/charles-mills and according to IMDB he did the music for the early indie film (documentary?) On the Bowery. However there is no bassist listed on the cd, soo..... BTW The "orchestral direction" is by Seiji Ozawa. Edited March 23, 2015 by medjuck Quote
king ubu Posted March 24, 2015 Report Posted March 24, 2015 No bassist on which CD? On the "Tracks in the Sand" one, bassist ist listed as Arthur Phipps - and just in case, it surely does not sound like Mingus at all. Great to hear some more Richard Williams though! Enjoying my first spin right now. Quote
medjuck Posted March 31, 2015 Report Posted March 31, 2015 No bassist on which CD? On the "Tracks in the Sand" one, bassist ist listed as Arthur Phipps - and just in case, it surely does not sound like Mingus at all. Great to hear some more Richard Williams though! Enjoying my first spin right now. Not on my copy. Quote
Mark Stryker Posted April 4, 2015 Report Posted April 4, 2015 (edited) I no longer have the LP so I'm unable to check but I seem to recall that the title track on Yusef Lateef's Riverside album, The Centaur and the Phoenix, was written by Charles Mills and adapted from his Crazy Horse Symphony. Yes, true. This is quite an astonishing piece, a quasi 3rd stream work. The liner notes (by Chris Albertson) say that Mills, who studied with Copland and Sessions, based the piece in part on his "Crazy Horse Symphony" of 1957 and in part on a "Charlie Parker Symphony" described as a work-in-progress. The Parker symphony never seems to have been completed -- at least I couldn't find anything about it. Maybe it was eventually given a different name. I read somewhere that Mills taught at the Manhattan School. Since Yusef studied there I'm guessing that's where the connection came from. Edited April 5, 2015 by Mark Stryker Quote
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