Andrew Hill Select "talk about THE MUSIC" thread

[JSngry]

Yeah, that's the period. Seems odd in a way, one stretch of frequent activity, a big gap, and then another stretch of frequent activity. Wondering if this was a time of "chilling out" for Andrew.

[relyles]

Yeah, that's the period. Seems odd in a way, one stretch of frequent activity, a big gap, and then another stretch of frequent activity. Wondering if this was a time of "chilling out" for Andrew.

Its not very much unlike how the rest of Hill's recording career has been. Long periods of silence.

[JSngry]

Agreed, but this is from a time when he had the benefit of a very active patronage of a label on an ongoing basis. Seems that Lion had an "open door" policy for him, more or less.

[Chuck Nessa]

Agreed, but this is from a time when he had the benefit of a very active patronage of a label on an ongoing basis. Seems that Lion had an "open door" policy for him, more or less.

Chained was the last Lion session. The rest were by Frank living up to Alfred's expectations. Things did get messy.

[ejp626]

There is also a "complete" (always have to be cautious with this) discography of Andrew Hill's Blue Note sessions.

So far, a big thumbs up!

The discography looks pretty good, though I think it should have included Osby's Invisible Hand.

Sorry, still overwhelmed by the arrival of the package and no coherent thoughts yet.

[UnPocoLoco]

Sorry, still overwhelmed by the arrival of the package and no coherent thoughts yet.

That's where I am right now, too. I got mine here at work this morning and had time on my lunch break to go home and pop disc one in my Mac and burn the first two discs to my hard drive and convert about 9 tunes to AAC for my iPod. Listening on my computer at work, via the iPod, the quality and volume is limited at best. However, the sessions sound rather adventurous; the first several songs on disc one are very much similar to Dance With Death. The remastering seems to be top notch, but I'll put it to the test on my Bose speakers when I get home later. Also, the Jan. 23, 1970 session was recorded on the same day I was born. How cool is that?

The booklet said that Hill originally favored version two of Ochos Rios, but later selected the first version for release. I'm siding with version two; the first version seems to run out of steam towards the end. There is indeed a certain meandering quality inherent in what I've heard, but I don't view that as a big negative.

"Monkash" has just started; the strings are grabbing me right off the bat....I'm going to love this one!

More later.....

[Jerry]

Ordered this yesterday. I'm really looking forward to hearing it. Lean times. The last cd I bought was Snurdy about 6 mos ago.

[Stefan Wood]

Been listening to the set all weekend. What kills me is his playing on organ. It's a killer!!!! I wonder if he was comparing notes with Larry Young, because it sounds similar to what he was doing at the time.

[Michael Fitzgerald]

Listened to part of the first disc last night. Absolutely wonderful. How anyone could think this stuff (at least the first half of disc 1) was somehow not ready for the public is beyond me. I am so very thankful that it has seen the light of day, and in such a significant way.

I noticed one small error in the notes. The Ping records that Hill made with Pat Patrick were not done in 1957, but in 1956.

Mike

[JSngry]

Been listening to the set all weekend. What kills me is his playing on organ. It's a killer!!!! I wonder if he was comparing notes with Larry Young, because it sounds similar to what he was doing at the time.

I was thinking Sun Ra, actually.

[ralphie_boy]

Been listening to the set all weekend.  What kills me is his playing on organ.  It's a killer!!!!  I wonder if he was comparing notes with Larry Young, because it sounds similar to what he was doing at the time.

I was thinking Sun Ra, actually.

It does remind me of Sun Ra, yet it is uniquely Hill. Somehow he manages to transfer his unique phrasing to the organ. Those tracks are really cool!

[Stefan Wood]

No, I'm thinking Larry Young. I hear you on the Sun Ra, but the phrasing is similar to Young's.

[JSngry]

I was thinking of the tone. That first 1967 session gets pretty Ra-like in a few places, and the tone Hill was using on the organ brought that home to me.

But, yeah, I flashed on some of Young's later BN stuff as well.

Fascinating music, all of it!

[keys]

I absolutely love this set.

I recently spoke to Andrew about this release and asked him to comment on Teddy Robinson,playing the Organ,other possible unissued Hill recordings.etc I have not as yet seen the Mosaic booklet and apologize for any redundancy if this is already covered elsewhere.

Teddy Robinson...

Robinson was playing in a lot of organ combo groups which were very popular at the time,they were living in the same building,he liked his playing and wanted to help him out,so he asked him to do the session.All contact with Mr Robinson as to his whereabouts or circumstances has been lost.

Organ...

Jimmy Smith,and Larry Young were some of the people he mentioned as influences.Late wife also played the Organ.Organ,groups were very popular during the early-mid 60's at a time when Jazz was in the doldroms.Wanted to see if playing the organ could lead to more work/options.

SS...

Was curious to see if the SS could fit into an Organ combo concept.Never,had a lesson or even played this instrument before this was recorded.

Unissued Andrew Hill...

Some Organ duets were recorded with his late wife on East Wind.This was recorded at the time of one of the solo sessions(Spiral,Blue Black,Hommage)but he does not remember the specific dateThe engineer who recorded this has since died,and the whereabouts of tapes are presently unknown.

[gslade]

I absolutely love this set.

I recently spoke to Andrew about this release and asked him to comment on Teddy Robinson,playing the Organ,other possible unissued Hill recordings.etc I have not as yet seen the Mosaic booklet and apologize for any redundancy if this is already covered elsewhere.

Teddy Robinson...

Robinson was playing in a lot of organ combo groups which were very popular at the time,they were living in the same building,he liked his playing and wanted to help him out,so he asked him to do the session.All contact with Mr Robinson as to his whereabouts or circumstances has been lost.

Organ...

Jimmy Smith,and Larry Young were some of the people he mentioned as influences.Late wife also played the Organ.Organ,groups were very popular during the early-mid 60's at a time when Jazz was in the doldroms.Wanted to see if playing the organ could lead to more work/options.

SS...

Was curious to see if the SS could fit into an Organ combo concept.Never,had a lesson or even played this instrument before this was recorded.

Unissued Andrew Hill...

Some Organ duets were recorded with his late wife on East Wind.This was recorded at the time of one of the solo sessions(Spiral,Blue Black,Hommage)but he does not remember the specific dateThe engineer who recorded this has since died,and the whereabouts of tapes are presently unknown.

More Unissued Hill

One can only hope these tapes are found

[Clunky]

My two non-sequentially numbered sets arrived yesterday (one's for a friend). Very interesting material, it'll take real time to fully evaluate but it certainly seems significantly more than just a scrap book of unfinished ideas. The tracks with strings are very strong IMO.

[JSngry]

I burnt the set into strict chronological/session order (5 discs to keep from having split sessions) and have been listening that way. By far and away the 10-31-67 session is the sloppiest, the raggediest, the least fulfilling. Sounds like nobody had half a clue about what was going on in terms of the tunes. Maybe not even Andrew. DEFINITELY not Herbie Lewis. Some strong solos, but even most of them sound like the cats just said "fuck it" and BLEW, if you know what I mean. As close to a Train Wreck as Cuscuna is ever liable to let out of the vaults, I'm guessing.

The rest, though, is a marvellously intriguing collection of sessions that are not without problems. But most of the problems are relatively minor - strained ensembles here, botched solo entrances there, occasional moments of unfocus from the rhythm section, etc. At the time, that might have been a big deal as far as BN releasing any of this stuff, but today, more than 30 years later, hey, it's history now, so big whoop.

I can see why Teddy Robinson didn't stick around. He's a very "light" drummer, and not as rhytmically interactive as somebody like Joe Chambers, who was constantly engaging in rhythmic dialogues w/Hill. But Robinson has a great ear, and his textural shadings work really well on the first two 1967 sessions, where Hill seems to be more interested in exploring space and texture than anything else. Robinson almost seems to be under the spell of Sunny Murray in spots, and to my ears, it works. Especially on the trio session. Whoo-eee!

Speaking of space, that first 1967 session sounds like everybody was tripping or soething! Cats go on and off mike, like they're bobbing and weaving whilst under the influence, and the energy is very psychedelic, almost Ra-like (same thing on the trio stuff - VERY open-ended, yet melodically coherent). And that organ! WOW!!!

Reissue of the year, afaic, even if it's not a reissue.

[Rooster_Ties]

Getting back to the Larry Young vs. Sun Ra influence on Hill's organ playing, I think it depends on the session.

For instance, if I had to peg an influence on Hill's organ playing on the 10-FEB-1967 date (the last one on disc #3, the one in mono), I'd say here Hill sounds more like Larry Young.

But on the trio date, Hill's organ work sounds more like I might expect from Sun Ra.

Maybe has to do with the differences in the overall vibe and energy of these two sessions, which are very different.

[andybleaden]

I got mine yesterday and got a nice session last nice listening to all quickly ( skipped through) and then hammered disc 2 consistently as it was awesome. I have always liked Illusion and to hear another cut was really interesting. Usully with takes 2 3 etc I can take or leave em but this was really nice.

His sax playing was erm ..ok but as a set it was lovely to see all this out in one go. I had one for one for a while and loved it but this was much better sound and everything.

I am sooooo grateful for this set coming out and need to stick it on my mp3 player for greater concentration when I am out and about.

BTW I like the soulful tracks also on the end of disc 1 too

More comments later.

BTW it will also be tempting me back to the other mosaic set too

[Eric]

Received this yesterday and have had it spinning at home at work.

This is gonna be a lot of fun ...

[skeith]

Ok, I just got this and it is always dangerous to put first impressions when listening to Hill but here goes:

I have listened to discs 1 and 2. Generally I like the set so far, but with a few quibbles. First of all, I don't think the sound is as great as a lot of the Blue Note sessions engineered by RVG are and I don't know where the blame is - the sound has the treble a bit rolled off it seems I don't hear much air between the instruments if you know what I mean - I don't hear the room, so to speak. But I wouldn't call the sound bad, just not as good as a number of other sessions.

The strings sessions I was previously familiar with since I owned the ONE FOR ONE twofer LP. Now the strings don't bother me but I find the harmonies so static and sort of similar that I find my attention drifting ... the tunes are nice grooves and all but not riveting.

I find, on the other hand, at least on an initial listen, the so called "Chained" session to be very interesting.

On Disc 1, tunes like "Without Malice" evidence great writing and I enjoy them. Other tunes make me wince in that they seem a bit cliche and sophomoric. Generallly the playing is great, but I found Pat Patrick's alto solo on Ocho Rios (first version) did nothing for me and sounded bad.

Generally, I am giving it thumbs up and definitely recommend it to Hill fans.

Edited February 27, 2005 by skeith

[ghost of miles]

Got this last night and listened to the first half of disc 1 before heading out... I just kept thinking, "F*%#in' A!" while it spun. Can't wait to dig into the rest of it over the next several days.

[ghost of miles]

The string quartet session is amazing (I had never heard ONE FOR ONE)... this music all sounds so modern. I was spellbound by it last night while I worked on assembling new CD bookcases... my wife walked by and said, "What is this? It's really pretty." (It was "Fragments"; she is a fan of Monk and Dolphy, and a woman, dare I add, of exquisite taste. B-) ) "Pretty" in the best sense of the word. Going to listen to the CHAINED session today at work... a little wary of the 10/31/67 trainwreck that Jim talked about, as I've enjoyed the rest of the collection so much so far, but I'm sure that even that will yield things of interest and value.

[Rooster_Ties]

a little wary of the 10/31/67 trainwreck that Jim talked about...

I've listened to the third disc a much or more than any of the rest in this set. (Disk #3 is an especially good listen while driving, with it cranked really loud!!) And while I agree with Sangry's comments, it's still some pretty damn exciting "sit on the edge of your seat" music.

Yeah, it doesn't all hang together, nice and pretty. And most of the heads are a mess. But most of the soloists really go for broke -- Woody Shaw especially (with some of THE most "raw" lines Woody ever played ), and Sam Rivers too (especially those on tenor).

Disc #3. It's a mess. A big, fat, nasty, glorious mess.

I'd buy more just like it without reservation. B-)

Edited March 11, 2005 by Rooster_Ties

[skeith]

I expected Disc #3 to be much worse than it actually is given Cuscuna's comments in the liner notes and some comments on this board. I just don't think the heads are played that badly or else I am not noticing, but it certainly doesn't jump out at me.

I am, for the most part, enjoying disc #3 too!!