Rooster's BFT #25, questions and logistics only...

[Rooster_Ties]

Howdy everybody,

Well, I've been working in earnest on my upcoming BFT (#25), and I've got a hell of a lot of great tracks picked out!!!! So many, in fact, that I'm pretty sure I'm going to do TWO BFT discs -- unless there's some mass objection to me doing so. I just have too damn many great things I want to share, in order to pare it down to just 79 minutes.

Part of the trouble, of course, if finding a few GREAT selections, that are like 12-minutes long each -- which really eats up time/space quickly. Not many, but all it takes is three long-ish ones, and suddenly half of one disc is already full.

Also, I'm starting this thread now, so I can go ahead and pre-post some logistical questions that I already have. (I'll create a separate "sign up" thread later, or else rename this one at the appropriate time.)

Question: How many mailings (total, worldwide) have people been requesting of late??? Looking at other threads, here and there, the answer seems to be about 50. Is this correct??

I have to admit that I only participated in the first 4 or 5 BFT's, but I found I really wasn't devoting enough time to responding with my commentary, and thus I dropped out of the BFT scene completely after about #5. (So I'm probably behind the times on recent advances in BFT logistics.)

I'm Stateside, so I can certainly send a bunch to people here in the U.S. -- probably up to 20 or maybe 25 mailings (depending on how many discs total in each mailing - see down below for the "wrinkle"). And I wouldn't mind some help with U.S. distribution, beyond that (thanks a HUGE BUNCH in advance!!!! ).

Question: Have there been any problems in the past with BFT discs being around 79 minutes in length?? Or should I keep to some shorter length, say less than 74 (or 72??) minutes??? Maybe the issue is what distributors can burn -- cuz I have no problems burning 79-minute discs.

Question: Would I be taken out and shot for wanting to also include burns of two more discs: a two-hour unreleased live concert that simply has to be heard to be believed???

Sangry, it's that same thing I sent you along with the recent Grachan Moncur big-band promo/burn. Can you confirm how GREAT this thing is, and how much people would want to hear it?? I have sent it to a couple other people on the board too (Undergroundagent is one that I can remember sending it too, maybe Connie500 too??? -- I forget. Oh, and couw definitely has one too.). If any of the rest of you have gotten a two-disc, two-hour unreleased concert from me within the last year, can you speak up about how much you liked it??? – without spilling the beans about who it is. ( )

I know, I know -- this would mean my BFT mailing would be FOUR discs total (YIKES!!!! ), but I've already been thinking about sending this concert out for some time -- and treating it as an "Album Of The Week". People shouldn't consider it part of the BFT, but rather just an opportunity for me to include something I was thinking about sending around anyway (as long as I'm sending stuff to a ton of you anyway).

Distributors: I plan to include some real CD's (the silver ones), in my mailing to you, as a big-ass thank you for all your time and expense. I can't pay you in the traditional way for your help, but I've got a huge stack of trade-bait CD's a mile high -- and I'll be happy to set each of you up with two or three discs each, for your efforts. (Yeah, some of my trade-bait is crap, but some of it isn't half bad at all.)

Other thoughts??? -- anyone???

Any other questions that I should be asking, that I'm overlooking???

Edited March 22, 2005 by Rooster_Ties

[John B]

If anyone objects to your sending them a free two cd, two hour long unreleased live concert I would be most surprised.

Full steam ahead!

[Bright Moments]

ditto that!!!!!

[Rooster_Ties]

I'm mostly concerned about the extra expense for the distributors. I know I can't afford to send everything to everyone (even if I was just sending two discs), so I'm gonna have to lean on the kindness of the distributors to help --- both in terms of time (burning four discs per mailing), and especially expense (extra cost for discs, and extra cost for postage too).

Edited February 18, 2005 by Rooster_Ties

[Rooster_Ties]

Forgot -- Spontoonious and Free For All both already have the "bonus" 2-hour concert too. (They're both here in Kansas City, so I forgot them, cuz I never "sent" it to them.)

And before you all think you know what it is -- it's NOT an Andrew Hill concert.

Edited February 18, 2005 by Rooster_Ties

[Jim Dye]

Hey, it's not that much more of an expense. Plus, I'm getting my tax refund in a week or so. Count me in as a distributor! I can handle a dozen burns (48 CDs) and mailings.

So to answer your questions...

1. About 50 at the very most.

2. Length hasn't been a problem

3. You're not going to be shot.

B-)

[Rooster_Ties]

Thanks Jim!!!!

3. You're not going to be shot.

Whew!!!!

[king ubu]

Hey Rooster - the second of my two BFT discs runs at 79:56... now I'm hoping that won't create any problems...

Btw: you didn't sign up yet, in case you want to! Check the BFT #24 thread and drop a mail as directed if you're interested.

And me too don't think those bonus discs would be a big problem!

ubu

[neveronfriday]

I'll take everything I can get my greedy hands to latch onto. I've said it many times: I haven't participated properly for quite a while (because of that, I'll try to make it up to everyone with a nice disc which I will handle myself ... might relieve my bad conscience), but I find these discs to be of magnificient value when it comes to really discovering new music I had been previously unaware of ... or which people recommended but I hadn't heard yet. There's nothing more convincing than a good tune which makes me run to hit amazon or any other outlet.

Bring it on!

Cheers!

[Rooster_Ties]

Hey, another logistical question or two…

Question: Attn. previous BFT creators -- have any of you made any effort to fix the disparity in volume levels between the selections?? (Even if all your source material was just from legit CD's.)

I just discovered a little utility (that I had on my PC all along!!), which allows me to increase or decrease the volume of any .wav file, in 25% increments. I've noticed that three or four of my selections are quite a bit on the quiet-side, especially compared with everything else. And I also have one or two selections (from "private recordings" ), that were recorded louder than everything else.

So, I'm thinking of trying to smooth things out a bit. Note: I'm not trying to "compress" things (if I understand that term correctly: "to quiet the loud sections, and bring up the soft sections, within the same piece of music), but rather I just want fix the relative "loudness" and "softness" of some of the tracks, relative to each other.

So, is there any reason I shouldn't?? (None that I can see, but I thought I'd ask anyway.)

The utility in question is just the ultra-basic "Windows ® Sound Recorder, for Win ME" (yes, I'm still using ME ). Never even knew I had this thing, until I clicked the wrong thing after a right-mouse click from the Explorer.

Thanks!!

Question: Any other BFT tricks of the trade I should be aware of???

I've already discovered how to edit tracks (still using Adaptec Easy CD Creator 4, just the stuff that was pre-loaded on my PC when I bought it). I'm putting it to good use, editing tracks here and there (where it makes sense), especially with the "private recordings" - and for some other source material that was really way too long to use in it's original form.

Edited February 18, 2005 by Rooster_Ties

[Jim Dye]

I did do it (make changes in the volume) and I regret using the tools I did. It really screwed up the sound quality on those tunes I messed with. Unless you are using a professional audio editing program (WaveLab, Audition) I would advise against it.

There is a tool called 'replay gain' which works when you encode to mp3 (lossy) or even FLAC (lossless!), but I doubt that most people would want to be tied to their computers when listening to the blindfold tests.

[Big Al]

Just bear this in mind: it’s your BFT, your moment in the sun; just have FUN with it! That’s what I did with mine, and I messed with volume levels (there was a Benny Goodman track which was barely existent among the other tracks until I brought the volume level up; unfortunately, it also highlighted the peak distortion of the track (technology of the late 80’s, whattya gonna do?), but it was worth it to have the volume level at the level of everything else) as well as editing tracks together (something that Dan also did; in fact, it was his little stunt that inspired me to try it on mine; fooled a few people, heheheheheh!!!). I think my disc was just a few second shy of the 80-minute mark. Heck, I almost put a song on mine backwards, just to test the theory that some standards are so familiar that some people may recognize ‘em if you played ‘em backwards!

So yeah, just have a blast with it and wait for people to start publicly scratching their heads. Not many more things as enjoyable as that, as I and other BFT-ers can attest!

Oh yeah, and count me in as one of your distributors as well. I’d love to help out and have access to a burner that can make copies lightning quick!

[mikeweil]

Question: Attn. previous BFT creators -- have any of you made any effort to fix the disparity in volume levels between the selections??

It always impaired the sound quality in the cases where I tried or knew it was done. I don't mind volume differences, I just tried to program the tunes in a way avoiding abrupt volume changes - as if there weren't enough apects to watch with sequencing

One has to check the standard setting of any burning program, as some include a compression or other procedure. (NERO e.g.)

[Rooster_Ties]

Thanks Al!!

I haven't noticed any serious distortion on any of the tracks I've played with, volume-wise. In fact, I haven't really noticed any distortion -- but then I've only been listening on my PC speakers.

Time to burn some tests, and check 'em out on the better stereo in the other room.

[RDK]

My two cents... I don't think we've had any BFTs with more than 40 participants. 30-35 seems more normal, though your 4-disc "box set" may draw a few more.

Depends on who's burning for you and the software/burner that they're using, but you could have a problem with very long CDRs. Besides the 79:56 minute length, check the file size as well. I had one disc once that was less than 80 minutes long but over 700 MB, and it was the file size that prevented me from burning it. (Have a newer computer now so that's no longer a problem.)

Also, instead of a program that changes the volume of tracks (which may or may not affect sound quality), see if your burner/software has built-in "normalization." That will help smooth out volume differeces and shouldn't affect SQ. At least it never has for me.

[Jim R]

My two cents... I don't think we've had any BFTs with more than 40 participants. 30-35 seems more normal, though your 4-disc "box set" may draw a few more.

My impression was that the number of people requesting discs is typically in the 35-40 range, but the number of people who "participate" was always lower- and seems to have been on the decline...

[Jim R]

I was curious, so I just took a look at the current (test #23) discussion threads. After almost two weeks, 13 people have participated (only 12 on the disc 2 thread).

I haven't counted on other recent tests, but it just seems that participation is down. On my test (Oct/Nov 2003), there were 34 discs distributed- 21 participants and 13 non-participants. FWIW.

And yes... avoid doing what I did (cramming 79 minutes 59 seconds worth of material on the master disc)

[tjobbe]

Hi Rooster,

I had trouble with coping the BT23 Disk two having 79:50 run time in total because I needed to do a "create image" inbetween due to not having two drives in my Laptop for play and burn. So in case you would want someone like me for europe/german distribution in BT25, I might prefer having max 79:00, as the store-image command adds at least 20sec worth of data.

For BT23-D2, I did some reformatting and spread disk two onto another disk... (allowing me to add some track, so the recipients have not complaint ...yet)

Cheers, Tjobbe

[Rooster_Ties]

I'll try to keep things between 78 and 79 minutes per disc (and closer to 78, probably). Shouldn't be too hard, based on what I've got picked out so far.

[tooter]

I was curious, so I just took a look at the current (test #23) discussion threads.  After almost two weeks, 13 people have participated (only 12 on the disc 2 thread). 

I am going to participate but haven't received discs yet (lost in the mail), so add me to the number. Probably not able to comment before next week though.

Edited February 21, 2005 by tooter

[MartyJazz]

Hey, another logistical question or two…

Question: Attn. previous BFT creators -- have any of you made any effort to fix the disparity in volume levels between the selections?? (Even if all your source material was just from legit CD's.)

I use Nero for burning CD-Rs. After loading tracks from various CDs and just about ready to write the CD-R. I highlight all the tracks, right click to "Properties" and then click on "Normalize" which results in a CD-R that more or less plays like any other professional compilation that a company would put out, i.e., a consistent volume level throughout. While I have the Adaptec software, I'm not as familiar with it as I'm quite comfortable with the fault-free CD-Rs that Nero delivers.

[couw]

hmm, I have used the Nero normalisation feature only once and ended up with a bunch of distortion, notably on fierce trumpet lines. So I get the one bad performance and Marty gets all those swell ones.

[cannonball-addict]

You could also burn "mp3 cd" style using iTunes or MusicMatch and fit a hell of a lot more tunes on one or two CDs.

matt

[Rooster_Ties]

Well, I had lunch with Spontoonious today, and we done spun through all the tracks on the beta-versions of my two BFT discs this afternoon. Came to the conclusion that there were a number of tracks that I might maybe be able to live without, at least this time around. Enough that I think I maybe'll be boiling this thing down to just one disc.

And actually, the total time for all the cuts that I really, REALLY want, is now down to 87:06. So, if I can just figure out where to cut another 8 to 8½ minutes, I'll have it!!!

Don't worry, I'm saving the "rejects", and I may even use a few of them the next time that I'm lucky enough to get to put together another BFT.

Edited February 25, 2005 by Rooster_Ties

[Rooster_Ties]

OK, I've got things narrowed down to just a one-disc BFT (instead of two), and feel it's a stronger disc as a result. Only had to disinclude two tracks I would have liked to -- but I'm sure they'll be on my next BFT (which at this rate, won't be for another two years or so).

Also, I'm still gonna include the unreleased 2-hour (2-disc) concert as well -- so the entire mailing will be three discs total.