Mingus & Cecil

[jasonguthartz]

I had posted this query to other boards and got no replies.

Jason G.

jason@restructures.net

The sources listed below provide varying and conflicting details for the material issued on Ozone 19 (LP). My copy of the record doesn't include the Cecil/Mingus duo (damn!) referred to below. Can anyone confirm the existence of this "Duet" track, along with dates & personnel for everything else on this record?

SOURCE A: http://www.jazzdisco.org/mingus/cat/a/#621026

Ed Armour (tp) Don Butterfield (tu) Charles McPherson (as) Jaki Byard (p) Charles Mingus (b) Dannie Richmond (d)

"Birdland", NYC, October 26, 1962

Monk, Bunk and Vice Versa

The Search

O.P.O.P.

Lonnie Hillyer (tp) Jimmy Owens or Hobert Dobsons (tp, flh) Julius Watkins (frh) Howard Johnson (tu) Charles McPherson (as) Charles Mingus (b, p, recit) Dannie Richmond (d)

live in NYC, January 18, 1966

Majonet: The Arts of Tatum and Freddie Webster / Don't Let It Happen Here

Cecil Taylor (p) Charles Mingus (b)

same location, date

Duet

SOURCE B: http://webusers.siba.fi/~eonttone/m...ls/ozone19.html

1. The Arts Of Tatum And Freddie Webster (Majonet) (5:25)

2. Don't Let It Happen Here (3:10)

3. Duet

All compositions by Charles Mingus

* Hobart Dotson - trumpet (on 1,2)

* Lonnie Hillyer - trumpet (on 1,2)

* Jimmy Owens - trumpet, fluegelhorn (on 1,2)

* Julius Watkins - French horn (on 1,2)

* Howard Johnson - tuba (on 1,2)

* Charles McPherson - alto sax (on 1,2)

* Cecil Taylor - piano (on 3)

* Charles Mingus - bass, piano, narration on 2

* Dannie Richmond - drums (on 1,2)

Information

Date and location

September 10, 1965, Village Gate, New York City

Original issue

Ozone 19 from TV recording

Comments

Ton Witberg:

1,2 original given as orchestra drawn from the Town Hall concert 12 October 1962.

3 given as New York 18 January 1966.

SOURCE C: http://www.shef.ac.uk/misc/rec/ps/efi/mtaylors.html

The Village Gate, NYC, September 19, 1965

1. Number One

2. Octagonal Skirt and Fancy Pants

Cecil Taylor: piano; Jimmy Lyons: alto sax; prob. Henry Grimes: bass; Sunny Murray: drums

Rare Broadcast Performances Ozone (Italy) 19 (lp)

Note: This was originally recorded for BBS tv broadcast by WNET-TV, NYC. the original material was broadcast followed by a panel discussion involving CT, novelist Ralph Ellison and critic Martin Williams. The taping from this original broadcast is some 29 min. long. These are believed to be rehearsals, not concert performances.

Note: Some sources give the drummer as Andrew Cyrille. Some give the bassist as Alan Silva.

Note: The rest of this record features music by Charles Mingus.

SOURCE D: http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?...g06gtq8znu45~T1

Unfortunately bassist Charles Mingus and pianist Cecil Taylor do not actually appear together on this bootleg album but their separate performances apparently both took place at the Half Note on the same night. Taylor plays quite free and with plenty of power with his quartet (altoist Jimmy Lyons, bassist Henry Grimes and drummer Sonny Murray) on two numbers while Mingus (who was otherwise completely unrecorded during 1966-68) leads a septet (with trumpeter Lonnie Hillyer and altoist Charles McPherson) on a variety of undocumented originals. The generally adventurous music is better than the cheesy packaging which completely leaves off the personnel and recording date.

[Chuck Nessa]

I can not provide details at the moment but I used to have the record. No friggin' duet and don't think this is from the same gig at all.

[Michael Fitzgerald]

Lots of misinformation in the above.

Below from my Hobart Dotson and Henry Grimes discographies. Yes, Grimes is the bassist. Absolutely. I have seen the video. Correct date from Down Beat 10/21/65 p.54.

Date: September 10, 1965

Location: Village Gate, New York City

Label: (television broadcast)

Charles Mingus (ldr), Charles McPherson (as), Hobart Dotson, Lonnie Hillyer (t), Jimmy Owens (t, fh), Julius Watkins (frh), Howard Johnson (tu), Charles Mingus (b, v, arr), Dannie Richmond (d)

a. Majonet (The Arts Of Tatum And Freddie Webster) (Charles Mingus)

b. Don't Let It Happen Here (Charles Mingus)

Both titles on: - Ozone LP 12": 19

- Music Room Special LP 12": OZ014

This was not a live performance. Broadcast by WNET-TV as part of the series "The Arts In America." Material also exists on video. Incorrectly listed in some sources as January 18, 1966 at the Half Note.

Date: September 10, 1965

Location: Village Gate, New York City

Label: (television broadcast)

Cecil Taylor (ldr), Jimmy Lyons (as), Cecil Taylor (p), Henry Grimes (b), Andrew Cyrille (d)

a. 01 Number One (Cecil Taylor)

b. 02 Octagonal Skirt And Fancy Pants (Cecil Taylor)

Both titles on: - Ozone LP 12": 19

Omit Jimmy Lyons (as) on a. Omit Henry Grimes (b) on a.

This was not a live performance. Broadcast by WNET-TV as part of the series "The Arts In America." Material also exists on video. Incorrectly listed in some sources as January 18, 1966 at the Half Note.

I strongly doubt the existence of any Mingus-Cecil duet.

Mike

[Free For All]

The thread title made me think of this. Is that wrong?

[Chuck Nessa]

Yes.

[RDK]

Mingus would have made a pretty cool cartoon character though...

[jasonguthartz]

Thanks Mike!!

I should have known to check your Grimes & Dotson discographies - duh!

Anyway, I suspected that "Duet" was a phantom.

How did you see the video footage of those gigs? It be great if someone would put 'em on a DVD!

[Late]

How did you see the video footage of those gigs? It be great if someone would put 'em on a DVD!

No kidding. This is the kind of stuff that I pray some billionaire jazzophile (an oxymoron?) feels compelled to get out to the masses in a legitimate package before he/she dies (buried, of course, with Buddy Bolden's mouthpiece and lucky coffee mug).

[king ubu]

I missed picking this LP up several times... next time I'll see it I'll have to get it! And yup, a DVD would be great indeed!

ubu