The troll who infests JC

[sonic1]

I would love to hear some good discussion of the music, in detail. That is what I was trying to draw out of those guys before. I will definately be giving some specific thoughts when I listen to some more current stuff. That is why I keep coming back to this thread, in hopes...

You know, I would, but I suck at it. All I can say is that what I've heard of his stuff (I have 6 CDs, all of which were bought second hand when I was simply out looking for new stuff) just leaves me cold. It's an instinctive thing - I have so much jazz that does it for me because it has that swing, it has originality, it has dedication, it has humor, it has sadness or joy, whatever. No matter what it is, it's music that moves me in some way, even if it only makes me laugh or behave stupidly (e.g., makes me dance).

So far, Marsalis does nothing for me.

None of the above and nothing else either.

That's the only problem I have with his stuff.

I don't enjoy it, and I move on to other recordings I have.

I do recognize that he's good technically, but so is Steve Vai, and although I have lots of his stuff from way back when, I'm going to sell it. Does nothing for me at all anymore. It never really did, but the technical abilities were fascinating.

And all of you who are now going to tell me to rid myself of my OP collection can just .... off.

Cheers!

It was mentioned in another thread on the JC that Marsalis appeals to people new to jazz. I agree that this is probably the case. Most Marsalis fans I have met have a limited record collection. People who have been listening a long time, and own a lot of music, don't have the time for Marsalis. Not because he is not good. He is ok as a musician. But he doesn't seem to break new ground (from the albums I have heard) and his swing comes off as contrived to a lot of long time listeners. It is nicer to listen to an album that breaks new ground, or to go back to the classics that were the ground breakers Marsalis emulates.

Again, of the stuff I have heard: about maybe 8 albums (I think I own 6 now). All from the 80s and early 90s.

Jared

[Dan Gould]

You know, these endless discussions about Wynton makes me wonder why no one has ever put him on a BFT. I mean, isn't that the ultimate test, not knowing who it is and getting an unbiased response?

I'm surprised no one's ever done that ...

[maren]

You know, these endless discussions about Wynton makes me wonder why no one has ever put him on a BFT. I mean, isn't that the ultimate test, not knowing who it is and getting an unbiased response?

I'm surprised no one's ever done that ...

How many "WM" guesses will there be from this date forward???

[sonic1]

THAT is a great suggestion.

[Dan Gould]

You know, these endless discussions about Wynton makes me wonder why no one has ever put him on a BFT.  I mean, isn't that the ultimate test, not knowing who it is and getting an unbiased response?

I'm surprised no one's ever done that ...

How many "WM" guesses will there be from this date forward???

Or at least when my turn rolls around again.

[Kevin Bresnahan]

You know, these endless discussions about Wynton makes me wonder why no one has ever put him on a BFT.  I mean, isn't that the ultimate test, not knowing who it is and getting an unbiased response?

I'm surprised no one's ever done that ...

How many "WM" guesses will there be from this date forward???

And what'll happen if the actual player happens to be Freddie or Lee? :D

[Kevin Bresnahan]

Hmm...and I am the latest victom?

I'd say "yes" as long as you don't get all mad about it.

Really, these Wynton threads just suck the life out of us. Bickering... snippy retorts... name calling. For what? For the umpteenth post about Wynton.

I think we should all start replying to Wynton Marsalis posts and act like we're talking about Wynton Kelly. At least that way, we can have fun with the thread.

Later,

Kevin

[rostasi]

It was mentioned in another thread on the JC that Marsalis appeals to people new to jazz. I agree that this is probably the case. Most Marsalis fans I have met have a limited record collection. People who have been listening a long time, and own a lot of music, don't have the time for Marsalis. Not because he is not good. He is ok as a musician. But he doesn't seem to break new ground (from the albums I have heard) and his swing comes off as contrived to a lot of long time listeners. It is nicer to listen to an album that breaks new ground, or to go back to the classics that were the ground breakers Marsalis emulates.

See, I think this is the kicker:

The average guy on the street

usually has the most basic of tastes

when it comes to...well, heck, just about everything really!

...but in music, you can see that Joe and his wife Jane Nextdoor

would really not want to think about culture - just too much thought that

you have to put into it. If there is some foray into "culture", then it becomes

Wynnie, or this dreadful millionaire painter guy that makes all of these dark

landscapes (can't remember his name - Thomas something?).

I'm convinced that many people want to be told what to like. When I had

the music store, you wouldn't believe the number of strangers that would come

in and ask me what they should buy(!) I just wish people would invest as much time

in artistic, gourmet, and sexual pleasures as they do in that damn idiot box in the front room!

end of rant...sorry...

---

Now playing: Harold Budd - L'enfant Perdu

[Big Al]

You know, these endless discussions about Wynton makes me wonder why no one has ever put him on a BFT. I mean, isn't that the ultimate test, not knowing who it is and getting an unbiased response?

I'm surprised no one's ever done that ...

In all honesty, I almost included "Where or When" from Standard Time, Volume 3, but ran out of room on the disc (that, and a nice ballad would've disrupted the flow). The playing on that track is quite tender.

[RDK]

I ran out of room, too (believe it or not! ), but I was seriously considering including a track from a non-WM led session that contains a mighty fine solo by WM. I thought that would have surprised some people.

[pryan]

And which album was that?

[AllenLowe]

if I can find the tape of the Tony Brown show I will post a transctipt - will look this weekend - it was quite offensive, there was a small hoopla and I believe some sort of apology -

[Larry Kart]

I once administered a mini-Blindfold Test to Wynton. It was back in '80 or '81, I think, soon after he had left Blakey, with maybe one album under his belt, before he'd gotten tight with Crouch et al. and decided (at their urging) that he ought to be the Young Prince of the Realm whose job it was to save jazz instead of the impishly clever trumpet whiz kid he actually was then (or seemed to be). Anyway, I'd decided that one way to look at the Wynton I was hearing back then was that he might be a kind of modern-day analog to Charlie Shavers, so before I left the house to interview him (he was doing a clinic at some hotel out near O'Hare Airport) I taped the title track of Coleman Hawkins' "Hawk Eyes," which includes a series of exchanges between a brilliantly explosive Hawkins and an incredibly virtuosic/witty Shavers, and at one point during the interview I played the tape for Wynton, Blindfold Test-style, to see what he thought of it. As I recall, he was wary at first, as though he thought I was trying to trip him up (I wasn't and didn't expect him to be able to identify anyone, just wondered if he'd dig Shavers and perhaps catch the likeness to his own playing of the time that I thought was there). I believe he did say something that showed he enjoyed the music, though it also seemed fairly clear that stylistically it was not at all familiar to him, but then I didn't expect that it would be. Whatever, the Wynton of that time struck me as a very different guy than the Wynton or Wyntons to come.

[Jazzmoose]

Of course, if we were really lucky, our moderator would realize it's simply someone "trolling for newbies" and delete the thing.

Later,

Kevin

Hmmm...so deleting threads is pretty much your solution to everything, eh?

[Christiern]

Interesting story, Larry.

Thanks, Allen, I just wondered how Tony reacted.

Kevin, if you don't click on a thread, it won't open for you--you will be spared the agony of reading something that makes you ill. Try it, there's really nothing to it. There aren't any threads that get me upset to the point where I want to start police action, but there are some in which I have not the slightest interest--guess what? I skip them.

[AllenLowe]

as I recall the audience cheered -

[Kevin Bresnahan]

Of course, if we were really lucky, our moderator would realize it's simply someone "trolling for newbies" and delete the thing.

Later,

Kevin

Hmmm...so deleting threads is pretty much your solution to everything, eh?

Seriously off topic but anyway...

When you're about to do something that you expect will get you booted off the board, like say for instance, telling the moderator to go f&#% himself, as I was planning to do after the whole Dan Gould/Greg Malz flap exploded, you plan ahead. I figured if I was going to get booted, I was taking my stuff with me. I also felt it was the only tool available to me to say "F*** off", so I used it. Petty? Sure, but I had little else available to me.

As it turned out, I slept on it, decided it wasn't worth jumping ship and took a short hiatus from this place. However, by then, the damage was done and the threads were deleted.

The thing I still don't get about the indignation from some people is that it took over two weeks after I had deleted the threads before anyone even noticed I had done it. Clearly, they weren't that big of a deal. I figured it was no big deal.

But regarding board moderation on "topics Wynton", I stand by my statement. I'd wipe this negative thread out if it was my board. It's really nothing but another "let's all just crap on Wynton" hatefest.

And Chris, you're such a comedian telling me to avoid threads. If only you would follow this advice and stay out of threads talking about Wynton, the Jazz boards would be much better off for it. My entry into threads like this is a far cry from what you do when you enter a Wynton thread.

Later,

Kevin

[sonic1]

Of course, if we were really lucky, our moderator would realize it's simply someone "trolling for newbies" and delete the thing.

Later,

Kevin

Hmmm...so deleting threads is pretty much your solution to everything, eh?

Seriously off topic but anyway...

When you're about to do something that you expect will get you booted off the board, like say for instance, telling the moderator to go f&#% himself, as I was planning to do after the whole Dan Gould/Greg Malz flap exploded, you plan ahead. I figured if I was going to get booted, I was taking my stuff with me. I also felt it was the only tool available to me to say "F*** off", so I used it. Petty? Sure, but I had little else available to me.

As it turned out, I slept on it, decided it wasn't worth jumping ship and took a short hiatus from this place. However, by then, the damage was done and the threads were deleted.

The thing I still don't get about the indignation from some people is that it took over two weeks after I had deleted the threads before anyone even noticed I had done it. Clearly, they weren't that big of a deal. I figured it was no big deal.

But regarding board moderation on "topics Wynton", I stand by my statement. I'd wipe this negative thread out if it was my board. It's really nothing but another "let's all just crap on Wynton" hatefest.

And Chris, you're such a comedian telling me to avoid threads. If only you would follow this advice and stay out of threads talking about Wynton, the Jazz boards would be much better off for it. My entry into threads like this is a far cry from what you do when you enter a Wynton thread.

Later,

Kevin

I think there has been some good points on this thread. If you are a wyntonite I can see one wanting to flinch. But we are discussing why we may or may not like wynton, and what is his appeal to people, what is his audience, etc. all real debate and exchange. There is a little negativity on the board but most of it has been from you.

I mean, I have to read attacks on artists I like ALL THE TIME. I don't take it all to heart. I chime in once in a while if I think a statement is incorrect or unfair. But not always. There has been, for example, many many anti-braxton statements I don't agree with. But I know Braxton is not for everyone so I leave it alone.

This is something you might practice too.

Don't get all hurt.

[Jazzmoose]

I figured if I was going to get booted, I was taking my stuff with me. I also felt it was the only tool available to me to say "F*** off", so I used it. Petty? Sure, but I had little else available to me.

So now you're shocked that I took your "fuck off" in the spirit in which it was intended.

By the way, you didn't just take what was yours, you took the other posts as well.

In spite of how I'm sure this post sounds, I really don't have any animosity for you; I'm glad your back and I think you add a lot to the board. On the other hand, I'm certainly not going to contribute much to any threads that you start. You know; once bitten and all that...

But enough of this. Now that it's out in the open, I'll cheerfully move on.

[ghost of miles]

But I know Braxton is not for everyone so I leave it alone.

She sure isn't!

[Christiern]

Kevin B:"And Chris, you're such a comedian telling me to avoid threads. If only you would follow this advice and stay out of threads talking about Wynton, the Jazz boards would be much better off for it. My entry into threads like this is a far cry from what you do when you enter a Wynton thread."

• So now you are going to tell me where I should or shouldn't post? Hey, that sounds like censorship to me--be advised that the TP (Thread Police) badge you're flashing is not the real thing.
  
  Why not give Mike Cuscuna a call? That may be just the therapy you need.
  
  I have no idea what your problem is, but this really should be my last response to you before I move on to something productive or, at least, fun. May I proceed without your indignation getting in he way?
  

[Kevin Bresnahan]

On the other hand, I'm certainly not going to contribute much to any threads that you start. You know; once bitten and all that...

Well, you should really do yourself a favor then and stop responding to Chris Albertson's threads here on Organissimo. After all, what I did here was delete about 10 or so threads. Chris deleted about 5,000 posts from Jazz Corner when he left last month. You never know when Chris might decide to pull the same thing here.

Chris is such a comedian, now I'm the "thread police". Well, at least he's stopped calling me a troll.

Later,

Kevin

[couw]

hey guys, cut it out already okay?

[Kevin Bresnahan]

hey guys, cut it out already okay?

Maybe you can ask the thread creator if he can delete the first post and "poof" it'll all be gone? You could try asking him. I doubt he'd listen to me.

[Cornelius]

There's a vast difference between just deleting your own posts and deleting entire threads including the posts of many others. I'd say there's even a vast difference between deleting 5000 of your own posts and deleting a thread with just one single post of another poster.

Edited February 11, 2005 by Cornelius