RDK Posted February 15, 2005 Report Share Posted February 15, 2005 well, he didn't kill my dog, but he castrated my parakeet - And I've heard he's turned penguins gay... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDK Posted February 15, 2005 Report Share Posted February 15, 2005 To play devil's advocate further, who would we cast as the "spokesman for jazz," whether official or unofficial? Do we even need a spokesman? Who would we consider both "artistic" and "comercial" enough these days? Jarrett? Metheny? Krall? () It seems to me that most of the "innovations" these days are occuring on the fringes, outside of commercial success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Fitzgerald Posted February 15, 2005 Report Share Posted February 15, 2005 Who was the spokesman of jazz from 1900 to 1980? No one, as far as I can tell. No one was speaking on behalf of the entire artform. Individuals did their thing. Louis Armstrong was there, but wasn't heading some coalition. Duke Ellington talked about HIS own music. There were some occasional pronouncements - Kenton comes to mind. Don Ellis too. Blakey had his sermons. But they were all in the context of their own spheres. No one had the backing of a multi-million dollar institution booking artists, commissioning composers, etc. When Kenton tried getting ambitious (L.A. Neophonic), it flopped. Jazz doesn't need a spokesman. Or maybe it needs a LOT of them, not one. Marsalis doesn't represent jazz in my world, so life goes on. It's just annoying that in newspapers and TV he shows up so disproportionately. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christiern Posted February 15, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2005 I don't think we need a spokesman for jazz. I would settle for media recognition of its existence outside of LC--in fact, it would be nice of the music industry (including NARAS) opened its ears to the many fine players who are on the scene today. Let's face it, Krall and N. Jones sell records because they are sufficiently bland to suit the taste of a public that is kept ignorant by tin-eared media and a recording industry that sells and hawks "product" without quality control. Jazz would speak for itself if given the opportunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazaro Vega Posted February 15, 2005 Report Share Posted February 15, 2005 Amen to that. Jim your Feb. 13, 1:44 p.m. post is excellent. The group most largely impacted by Wynton's mission are students and beginners. The Lincoln Center Band sells out concert halls all over the world with huge student audiences. Some of the audiences in Europe, as seen in video clips on WM's web site, look like soccer crowds (Marciac, esp). He arrived at a moment when jazz was passing from a living musical expression to by and large an institutionalized art form, and much of that institutionalization is occurring in the ill defined but prevalent 'jazz in schools' movement, and that's more North Texas than 'Bama State Collegians. We live in the age of competence on your instrument but where are the bands? Where's the evolution of ideas within those bands? There are handfuls now where there was once abundance. Much of the attention is focused on transcription -- as people who come to Wynton's defense will call you out on that first, like being able to WRITE IT DOWN LIKE CLASSICAL MUSIC proves some higher value -- but what is being learned by transcription? That technique for study has been around since recordings. It just seems that today's listener or student will write out a solo and that's enough. They've learned the solo, but they haven't learned what it is communicating, or don't think to consider it in that fashion, i.e. the music part. Remember that Ellington tune from one of his small band sides in the 50's, "Where's the Music"? It wasn't on paper, and it was barely even a sketch, but there it was: The Ellington Effect, again. Different world, different scene. And by the way I think Larry Kart does a great job of comparing the short comings of Wynton's writing as compared to Duke's (and who doesn't fall short of THAT mark?) in his book Jazz In Search of Itself in case there are any out there who need that sort of specificity in order to feel someone has the right to disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chandra Posted February 15, 2005 Report Share Posted February 15, 2005 Let's face it, Krall and N. Jones sell records because they are sufficiently bland to suit the taste of a public that is kept ignorant by tin-eared media and a recording industry that sells and hawks "product" without quality control. "My books are water; those of the great geniuses are wine -- everybody drinks water." - Mark Twain ( not sure if he really said that, but it usually attributed to him ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted February 15, 2005 Report Share Posted February 15, 2005 I would just, personally, hereby like to volunteer to be the spokesman for jazz - and I will do it without renumeration (well, maybe I'll pass the hat from time to time). But I will do it and I will do it gladly. Check this board for future pronouncements (and please let me know if I spelled "hereby" correctly). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted February 15, 2005 Report Share Posted February 15, 2005 AND I WILL DO IT IN ALL CAPS, LIKE THAT OTHER GUY WHO POSTS HERE. THIS DOES CREATE THE ILLUSION OF GOD-LIKE POWERS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted February 15, 2005 Report Share Posted February 15, 2005 AND MY FIRST PRONOUNCEMENT: JAZZ IS GOOD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catesta Posted February 15, 2005 Report Share Posted February 15, 2005 AND MY FIRST PRONOUNCEMENT: JAZZ IS GOOD. I wasn't sure, but now I know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couw Posted February 15, 2005 Report Share Posted February 15, 2005 some jazz sucks though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son-of-a-Weizen Posted February 15, 2005 Report Share Posted February 15, 2005 AND MY FIRST PRONOUNCEMENT: JAZZ IS GOOD. I thought it was: soprano sax bites the bango root??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catesta Posted February 15, 2005 Report Share Posted February 15, 2005 some jazz sucks though Stop confusing me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christiern Posted February 15, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2005 There have been moments when jazz appeared to be in a vacuum, but it never sucked. Bird 24.3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AfricaBrass Posted February 15, 2005 Report Share Posted February 15, 2005 AND I WILL DO IT IN ALL CAPS, LIKE THAT OTHER GUY WHO POSTS HERE. THIS DOES CREATE THE ILLUSION OF GOD-LIKE POWERS. It's like the CAPS have power over me. You should run for office. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted February 15, 2005 Report Share Posted February 15, 2005 FOR PRESIDENT. PRESIDENT OF JAZZ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AfricaBrass Posted February 15, 2005 Report Share Posted February 15, 2005 FOR PRESIDENT. PRESIDENT OF JAZZ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catesta Posted February 15, 2005 Report Share Posted February 15, 2005 FOR PRESIDENT. PRESIDENT OF JAZZ! This is only a rough draft of a possible campaign speech, but I think it may work. JAZZ IS GOOD! SOME OF IT MAY SUCK, BUT GENERALLY SPEAKING, IT IS GOOD! THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDK Posted February 15, 2005 Report Share Posted February 15, 2005 Despite my reservations then, and per earlier posts on this thread, it still might be in our best interests to appoint Wynton Marsalis as Secretary of Commerce. B-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted February 15, 2005 Report Share Posted February 15, 2005 YOU MUST MEAN SUCKRETARY OF CONVERSE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted February 15, 2005 Report Share Posted February 15, 2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted February 15, 2005 Report Share Posted February 15, 2005 WAIT - WE ARE ALL SPOKESMEN FOR JAZZ WE HAVE THE POWER BECAUSE WE ARE ORGANISSIMO AND WE ALL HAVE CAPS LOCKS ON OUR KEYBOARDS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BERIGAN Posted February 15, 2005 Report Share Posted February 15, 2005 YOU MUST MEAN SUCKRETARY OF CONVERSE. are you saying he both sucks, and blows? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted February 15, 2005 Report Share Posted February 15, 2005 That's your interpretation, one with which I will not interefere, out of respect for your artistic freedon... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzmoose Posted February 15, 2005 Report Share Posted February 15, 2005 I would just, personally, hereby like to volunteer to be the spokesman for jazz - and I will do it without renumeration (well, maybe I'll pass the hat from time to time). But I will do it and I will do it gladly. Check this board for future pronouncements (and please let me know if I spelled "hereby" correctly). Tell you what: you sell that Nat King Cole set you're offering, and you've got the job! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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