Blindfold Test .:.23 DISC TWO

[.:.impossible]

I understand what you are saying John. The berimbau is generally played in a way that would come across as "off" in many contexts. There is a lot of buzzing generated by striking that string and the result is a sort of primal droning effect. It is definitely not a traditional jazz instrument and the contrast against the rest of the band is high. I assume this was the composer's intent, certainly in the spirit of Jobim. Hey, this track may firmly cement the fact that the berimbau will never be a traditional jazz instrument, which is ok with me. Then again, I don't imagine Schaphorst is attempting traditional jazz arranging either.

Edited February 15, 2005 by .:.impossible

[couw]

thanks for the pic and the explanation. It isn't the sound per se, but more that I have the impression that the player hits some wrong notes at the wrong time, disturbing the rhythm. As I mentioned in my first impression about the track, it all settles down as the track proceeds and upon repeated listening, I actually like it all very much; just those few flukes. Maybe the player and or the instrument hadn't warmed up yet(?)

[brownie]

On to disc 2 which I consider more as an album to share among friends/fans than as a true blue BFT since it includes some pretty well-known albums.

1- the very identifiable tenor of John Gilmore with Sun Ra! Since there is no bass, I take it this might come from the Horo small group date which is a rare item nowadays. When it was issued, there were so many Sun Ras I had gathered that I did not bother to pick this one. If that's the Horo I'll continue my search for it!

2- the other Great MD quintet! From a not very well recorded bootleg which makes it sound a bit confused when that music was so very straight-on. The Miles-Shorter combination was one of those great moments in jazz history. Is that Ron Carter on bass? His sound seems lost in that concert hall...

3- the Andrew Hill signature grabs the listener from the very first notes. One of the badly distributed album from BN that turned hard to get if you missed it right after its release.

4- Grant Green walking the streets. Those marvellous dates were being put out by the week. And what a combination of talents. The recipe for these specialties seems to have been almost forgotten by now.

5- that's the first track I have problems with: not very keen on the music and no idea what this is all about?

6- another classic introduction with the trumpet plus bass duo that reveals all!

Mingus was churning out one memorable album after another at the time

7- sounded familiar and had to do a little searching to clear that one. A shame that the leader had only one album produced on the label. One of the most complete musician and a pretty unassuming one which probably caused him to stay unheralded for too long. Byrd was really trying at the time. It's odd how he and Hubbard took the wrong road. What a waste of talent!

8- liked that one very much but felt frustrated at not being able to recognise it...

9- another personal favorite. The Mosaic box of his complete BN works made a Mosaic practicioner out of me. What still floors me is how the pianist keeps the phrases progression growing one after the other to produce a tension that is obly broken by the drummer's interventions...

10- that sounds familiar too and should be more Grant Green. A nice one. Did some checking with the GG I have and cannot recognize this.

11- Woody Shaw's Moontrane but I don't think I have heard that version before. A very nice one. There is also Bobby Hutcherson. Wait a minute! This has got to be. Yes, of course an AMG search confirms this. One more of those elusive albums! I have been waiting for a reissue of this one for too long. Glad to hear this version here! Thanks, Impossible!

12- more Grant Green and I know the tune and the album. The one with Ben Dixon's alter ego. Grant Green seemed to make his solos sound so easy...

13- my initial reaction to that one was that final big band track was a bit of a downer. Not that it is bad but it offsets the mood that was worked up by the previous tracks. But I have it it a couple of relistening and getting in the mood of it. No idea who's playing here but this one intrigues me. Like it by now!

[mikeweil]

It isn't the sound per se, but more that I have the impression that the player hits some wrong notes at the wrong time, disturbing the rhythm. As I mentioned in my first impression about the track, it all settles down as the track proceeds and upon repeated listening, I actually like it all very much; just those few flukes. Maybe the player and or the instrument hadn't warmed up yet(?)

Perhaps it is the slightly different timing a percussionist adds to the band, certainly not the usual jazzy triplet feel. I think it fits the Brazilian mood of the piece. Might be something to simply get used to - when I started playing in jazz groups I sometimes go that kind of reaction, even from fellow musicians. The phrasing is different, and maybe that clashes in your ears. No offense intended.

The berimbau is indeed difficult to use in such a context, as you have only two notes a half or whole step apart to play, so it's a drone, basically, that will not fit every chord, inevitably.

So its Haddad (tapping my own shoulder ), and he plays a pandeiro, which is the Brazilian tambourine - really sounds like an Indian kanjira at times the way he handles it. Interesting disc - as cheap as Naxos Jazz CDs are, this will be purchased soon! Thanks for including!

[.:.impossible]

I think you will enjoy it Mike. This is the only Brazilian influenced composition included, but all of the compositions are interesting in their own way. I almost included a tune called "Blues Almighty." Let me know what you think of this if you do get it!

[.:.impossible]

P.S. Amazing that you identified Jamey Haddad! This is the only time I've ever heard his name. Well done!

[cannonball-addict]

Track 1 - Really sounds like a classic blue note but with a little extra avant-garde edge. Tenor player sounds like George Coleman but I know it can't be him with that vibrato. I like the drive on this one. I dig the drummer a lot but not the pianist so much - I do have to say his left-hand comping during his own solo is interesting at best. The soloing is quite frenetic but it definately suits trumpeter. No bassist huh - just realized that at the end.

Track 2 - yeah no need for comments on the players. i used to not dig this band but when I heard "filles..." i got converted. that was some time ago now. but this is not from that record. if I looked on all music i could find out, but I won't do that per request of the test's administrator. you gotta dig tony. he's nuts here. totally dig herbie's solo!

Track 3 - this test certainly has more risque overtones than previous ones in recent memory. i like that (i'm not saying that's a bad thing at all)! this track is certainly very heady. i thought I was gonna recognize this after a few listens. if I had to guess, i'd say somebody influenced by monk. could be early keith jarrett. bill evans came to mind for a moment but this comping is not his. i really love the drummer's interplay with him. mal waldron?

Track 4 - i really dug the low-key nature of this record. i like the organist's feel. the vibes are unusually quiet on my speakers. yeah....i like this guitarist's use of space. it gives him time to think of "money" material. i especially like his unpredictability on the turnarounds. vibes solo doesn't do that much for me, though it is well-crafted, finishes well. i have no clue about these players. maybe somebody obscure like mel rhyne on organ? even though I dig the overall vibe, it goes on unnecessarily long.

Track 5 - well. interesting. you've gone on an organ rampage of a different color than past BFTs. at times i want to say it's some minimalist europeans but i have this weird feeling dave douglas is the trumpeter. something about the articulation at the beginnings of the notes. it's a beautiful piece and definately one that I would put on my BFT if it were in my collection. its simple changes hint again (like on disc one) at "I Should Care," but I am hesitant to say this is actually a standard because parts sound totally different. surprised I didn't lose interest in this one earlier on.

Track 6 - damn. the tune is on the tip of my tongue. i am pretty sure this is something i've heard done before. sounds like something very old-school. like something hoagy carmichael wrote? or something from a rodgers and hammerstein movie musical.

Track 7 - THANK YOU FOR LIFTING ME UP! I have no clue who this is but I was feeling a bit weary after all the slow stuff. Weird form! But I really dig the horn figures. Totally wacky. It's pretty apparent the pianist is the leader. Sounds like Lee Morgan out of his familiar bluesy territory on these changes and thus its that much harder to pin him down. But whoever he is, he is taking the changes like a pro. Pretty clear to me that this is Jackie McLean wailing on alto. It probably reveals a lot about my collection if I don't have this. I really don't focus on collecting classic BNs. Max Roach? Such form and beauty in that short solo.

Track 8 - Oriental vibe. I have to say this BFT is really gonna leave me penniless unless of course the radio station has the stuff, in which case I can listen to it whenever I want. Wow, almost no clues here. I would guess it was recorded in the 1960s. Nice cymbal work towards the end. Again, a little overdone.

Track 9 - We've had almost all somewhat obscure changes. Often extended forms with 8-16 bar bridges. This tune again sounds rather familiar. Impossible, you must really dig Monk a lot! I was really kinda hoping for a bass solo and for a drum solo a littler earlier than it came.

Track 10 - yeah. finally some blooz! that intro really sounds like "Black Nightgown" by Johnny Mandel. it's amazing how much a steady hi-hat on two and four can do for a really good organist. jimmy mcgriff? john patton? lonnie smith? one of the usual suspects. wow, I love the second to last chorus of that first organ solo. whenthe guitar starts to solo, I feel like it is too much in left channel - kinda sounds removed from the rest of the action. awww - I was hoping for a full fledged drum solo straight from the guitar solo, but those fours will do. A fade-out? that's just LAME! everything else was so nice. why'd they have to go and mess it up like that?

Track 11 - is it Gary Burton on vibes. that's rare on this board. he never gets a mention. can't be. it's gotta be the "hutch". the trumpet player is escaping me now. eddie henderson? nice intervalic leaps! very modern sound. i really dig the "outness" of his solo. freddie hubbard? cecil bridgewater? the recording quality is not up to today's standards but I really like cuz it sounds so real!

Track 12 - goddammit. for god's sake what is name name of this tune!?!? i know it! its one of those short simple titles, right? pretty sure it's not originally a bossa feel on the original. this is an OLD starndard. don't let me get through this disc without positively identifying anything! I'm gonna be humming this all freakin week and not remember what it is! grrrrrr.....no doubling in octaves so it's not wes. oh well, it is really early in the morning. maybe I'll feel it later. kenny burrell?

Track 13 - weird. didn't expect this to follow that last one. very weird. did i mention it's very pretty writing, but awfully weird? pretty brass voicings. some modern lesser known hep cat on tenor? articulation is like dick oatts. wow he's got some range (both low and high)! is this maria schneider orchestra? rick margitza? rich perry? altissimo sounds a bit like lovano? this could be brookmeyer's writing. that baritone player has a big sound like gary smulyan. this is almost surely a NY big band. such great sections. I'm definately buying this just for the tenor player. weird.

thanks. this was impossible, impossible.

[cannonball-addict]

According to the liner notes of this NAXOS JAZZ release, Schaphorst has directed the Jazz Studies program at Lawrence University in Appleton, Wisconsin since 1991, spending much of the previous decade in Boston. As a founding member of the Jazz Composers Alliance, he has worked with and been positively influenced by Sam Rivers and others and their unique approach to big band arrangement. This disc is extremely varied, yet maintains a real cohesive feel, where you get Schaphorst, not a group of musicians playing a chart. The music on this disc feels like someone. Not perfect, but really working to be who they are without causing a stir.

Soloists featured on this disc include the previously mentioned along with Donny McCaslin, Doug Yates, Brad Shepik, Dave Taylor, Uri Caine, Andy Gravish, Josh Roseman, Curtis Hasslebring, Dave Ballou, and Jay Brandford.

One correction or update, rather. Schaphorst left Lawrence about 4 years ago and was replaced by Fred Sturm, an equally talented and forward-thinking but lesser-known big band composer/arranger who was at Eastman for some years teaching scoring-arranging. I think he taught Maria a lot of what she employs today. Sturm originally came from Lawrence (maybe got his degree there i think) and his going back was seen as a homecoming.

How do I know this? One of my best friends is currently a saxophone major in the conservatory there. It's a really great program. Last year they had Dave Douglas Quintet to campus as well as several other great groups do clinics and concerts at the school of music and the local PAC (performing arts center).

If any of you guys have kids who want a great jazz program that's not in a big city and nowhere near one, this is definately the place. They've also brought an excellent Berklee-trained saxophone and improv professor named Jose Encarnacion. My friend took jazz lessons with him.

And, like I said in my comments, definately a modern big band and a SUPER-DUPER hep cat on tenor. I don't know Seamus' playing THAT well but I should have included him since I have two of his discs on Criss Cross. He's gotta be pretty badass, since he won the Monk competition when Wayne Shorter was a judge.

[.:.impossible]

I agree re: Seamus and think he conscientiously comes out of the Wayne Shorter bag. Talk to me about those Criss Cross albums. I think I heard one at a friends apartment in NYC last fall with Rhodes, bass, drums. Does this ring a bell?

[cannonball-addict]

Yes, Cary, that CD is entitled Dig This!!! and the leader on the date is trombonist Wycliffe Gordon. Sam Yahel is on Hammond B3 and Bill Stewart is on drums.

[mikeweil]

Talk to me about those Criss Cross albums. I think I heard one at a friends apartment in NYC last fall with Rhodes, bass, drums. Does this ring a bell?

You wanted Rhodes, not B-3 - so how about Four Track Mind on Criss Cross with Kevin Hays on Rhodes and Mark Turner blowin' the 2nd horn? Some nice funky grooves on it.

[king ubu]

#1 - Nice opener! Like what the pianist does with his left hand. Some late sixties Silver? Good tenor and trumpet solos.

#2 - Second Miles quintet? Some Miles Trees stuff? Still have to dig into the 67 tree...

#3 - Bobby Hutcherson? "Stick Up"? ... Sounds more like "Dialogue", on second thought, but it's been quite a while since I last heard any of Hutch's Blue Notes. I'll stick with "Dialogue".

#4 - More sixties Blue Note. Grant Green with Larry Young? More Booby, so this is from "Street of Dreams"? As much as I try to like the Green-Young-Jones recordings, they have never been even close to my favourite Green (or Young) albums... I'll keep trying, It gets better when at Green's return Elvin starts loosening, and of course Green's sound and lines are as beautiful as they always were, yet the whole thing is somehow too laidback, too easy for me...

#5 - Definitely not my favourite, but it works nice as a segue into the following...

#6 - which is another fantastic track I know or have. That sound on trumpet is so hauntingly beautiful! Love that band! The trombonist (who had trouble with some of his teeth after this gig) is among my favourites! Great alto solo, too. I guess it's from "East Coasting", but I didn't check.

#7 - This sounds very familiar, too! Back to Blue Note territory... As I said, I don't have my collection here, and I can't tell where this is from, but I'm quite sure I have it. Jackie Mac. Blakey-influenced drummer (Art Taylor?), can't tell trumpet player and pianist after one listen.

#8 - Sounds slightly familiar. Like it, but can't say what it is. Second go. Very nice arrangement! I like a lot what the drummer plays during the first chorus. Not Herbie Nichols, I think.

#9 - This is Nichols now? Or is it just my frame of mind that expects him? Blakey? Beautiful one! Need to get that Blue Note set out of the shelf again!

#10 - Nice organ sound! Smith? Sounds familiar, to be honest, but... I have no clue as to which album this comes from.

#11 - Woody? Sounds a lot like mid-Sixties Blue Note music, and it sounds familiar, too... Oh, wait, is this from Hutcherson's BN live disc recorded at Montreux? Long time no listen, need to dig that out, too!

#12 - Not sure who this is, but it sounds lot like something I have on some CD, but don't ask me on which or by whom... Might be from the trio-only disc of Green-Young-Jones? But that doesn't sound exactly like Elvin (but then the fact that Elvin is "Elvin in disguise" on those albums might be one of the reasons I don't love them more, another might be the sound of them).

#13 - So to end we leave Blue Note-land... very nice trumpet sound! Sounds like a European production. A lovely closer to a very enjoyable test!

Disc 2 showed me how long it has been since I listened to any Blue Note discs! Time to dig them out again... thanks a lot Cary, for this great compilation!

ubu

[mikeweil]

Any agreement between the two of you as far as posting the answers to BFT 23 is concerned?

[king ubu]

Cary mentioned answers will follow during the first days of March. I tried to make my discs arrive by then... I'll open the discussion around March 2-5, I guess, if the answers to BFT 23 are up by then, otherwise I'll just wait a bit longer - no need to keep the almost frantic pace of recent BFTs, in my humble opinion.

[mikeweil]

no need to keep the almost frantic pace of recent BFTs, in my humble opinion.

[Big Al]

Just a note that I've been insanely swamped the last few weeks, and will post my guesses this weekend (hopefully)!

[tooter]

Tail end Charlie here again. Don’t suppose there will be anybody reading this now the party’s just about over but I will have a go anyway.

1. These players do not sound familiar. I like the track although it’s not my usual listening. No guess as to the tune even.

2. Similar to 1. in that the same comments apply but much different music. Didn’t like this as much as 1. though.

3. Vibes make an appearance again, which is good. Still no ideas as to who or what.

4. I tend the avoid the organ as much as I can – just don’t like the sound, which I once heard described by a musician I respected as “an electronic stomach”. They still had one in the band though. But I’m sure I know this guitar player – sh.. – failure to conjure up a name yet again.

5. Organ again – still singing the same tune.

6. “Memories of You” – no revelations here for me either.

7. Don’t know the tune. Piano leads off so may be the leader of the session. Sounded a little Silverish sometimes. The trumpet sounds like Donald Byrd to me but not sure. However, the alto I would say is McLean – the last time he was on a BFT I said James Spaulding so this is probably Spaulding. There, I’ve got two choices now!

8. No idea – nice track.

9. At last – a name I can try. Herbie Nichols. Sounds very like him to me – if it isn’t I will probably retire from BFT’s 

10. Don’t know any organists – could be anybody for all I know. I think the guitarist might be Grant Green though.

11. Woody Shaw – “The Moontrane”. Very nice too. Everybody got that.

12. Samba de Orpheu – Bonfa. Think I should know the guitarist but doesn’t strike a chord still.

13. Is that a Jews harp in there? Just a wild guess that it might be Tom Harrell. Certain I’m wrong.

So at last I can read the comments and see if I’ve got anything right. I don’t even know if the answers have been posted yet. Thanks a lot .:. for two demanding and stimulating discs to audition – worth the wait, certainly.

[Jim R]

12.  “Samba de orfeu” (or “orpheus”).  Our man GG again.  This is from the Cobblestone/Muse LP, yes?  I let go of that one and never picked it up again.  That was the album where the organist was mis-identified for many years (it’s Larry Young, not John Patton), IIRC.

I thought it had been pretty well established...

D'OH!!! That'll teach me to post before reading what had come before!!! Sorry about that! :red-faced embarrassment:

From the "better late than never" dept....

Sorry Al, I forgot to respond to that post. No need for embarassment- I was just kind of opening the topic for (re)discussion, and was basically relying on my memory (not a wise thing). In other words, I'm pretty sure it's been established that it was actually Young on "Iron City", but that's based mostly on recollections of what I had read on this board (and possibly the BNBB), and less on my ability to distinguish one organ player from another.

[Jim R]

10. Don’t know any organists – could be anybody for all I know. I think the guitarist might be Grant Green though.

Bingo! Go ahead and trust your ears as to the G-G-uitarist on tracks 4 and 12. B-)

Too bad it took awhile for your discs to be delivered, tooter, but it's great that you still participated.

[catesta]

Last again?

1 - Not sure on this track. For a second I thought it was Cedar Walton on piano, I'm wrong and difinitely have no clue.

Not bad though.

2 - Sounds like an early 50's live recording. Made me think Dizzy, But that ain't Dizzy. This is probably somehting everybody has, except me.

3 - It's all good! Don't know the tune, but I believe that is Hutcherson.

Nothing I have, something I'd like to have though.

4 - I no longer own this recording. I loaned it out to a friend and it moved to Cali with him. Not being a huge fan of organ I didn't think I would miss it, but this is indeed a great recording. This is Grant Green with Larry Young doing the title track.

5 - The trumpet was fine with me, but the organ was not kind to my ears.

6 - The trombone work on this track was simply beautiful, don't know who it is, but I love it. Is that Monterose on tenor?

It is Bill Evans on piano, no?

7 - A good one. no doubt. I love it! First track on this WD Jr..

8 - Oh shit, this is great. I'm a sucker for stuff like this. On first listen it seemed very familiar, but now I'm not so sure. Is this from a Duke Pearson trio date?

If still in print, I'll be getting it.

9 - No real guesses, but a nice piece of music. Could possibly be Horace Silver or someone influenced by. Another one I will be looking for.

10 - Organ leaves me clueless, probably one of the Jimmys.

11 - This is wonderful. More Hutcherson? I take it that's Woody Shaw? If so, I'm shit out of luck on picking this up, bummer.

12 - A catchy tune, no doubt. Guitar made it alright with me. Another Grant Green and Larry Young recording?

13 - This turned better for me as time went on, but I've got no clue as to who the payers might be.

Cary, thanks for including me on this BFT.

Sorry again for being tardy with my responses. But as you can they were hardly worth waiting for.

[tooter]

10. Don’t know any organists – could be anybody for all I know. I think the guitarist might be Grant Green though.

Bingo! Go ahead and trust your ears as to the G-G-uitarist on tracks 4 and 12. B-)

Too bad it took awhile for your discs to be delivered, tooter, but it's great that you still participated.

And I was not even the last one, to my surprise. I like to put my bit in early, if not first, on the basis that if I'm going to make a fool of myself by the time it all comes to and end everybody will have forgotten.

It's not so much my ears that fail me but my memory, Jim. Do ears have a separate memory device all of their own, probably working in both ears rather than independently ? Thanks for the encouragement - at least I got one right that I know of so will persevere. Just have to get a new interconnect between ears and brain

Late delivery - one sending went missing entirely this time - is something suffered by everybody at some time or another I guess. All recipients are aware of the enormous effort required to produce a BFT, even those of us who haven't done it yet, so not to give it one's best shot would be a disgrace I think.

Long live the BFT - it's great fun and thanks to those who thought it up.

[Jim R]

I like to put my bit in early, if not first, on the basis that if I'm going to make a fool of myself by the time it all comes to and end everybody will have forgotten.

I wouldn't worry about that. I think almost everybody only remembers their own dumb(ass) comments!

Late delivery - one sending went missing entirely this time - is something suffered by everybody at some time or another I guess.

Understood. I hope it didn't appear that I was blaming Cary... I had read about the delivery problem in the sign-up thread.

All recipients are aware of the enormous effort required to produce a BFT, even those of us who haven't done it yet, so not to give it one's best shot would be a disgrace I think.

It's always kind of disappointed me that we don't have a higher participation rate among those requesting (and presumably receiving) discs. With the effort and expense involved, the very least one can do is post a "thanks" and/or "sorry, I haven't had time to participate". Ah well.

=====

Good to see Chris coming along to try to "kill" the thread. And he nailed a couple, too! Grant Green mania!

[mikeweil]

No matter how late - I read all the comments.

Can't repeat it often enough, this is not about correct guesses oe even first correct guesses, but more about comments on the music.

And yes, a note of thankful receipt is the least one should post. I understand sh.. happens and consumes any time for listening, which is what happened to Big Al this time, who is one of the liveliest participants.

[king ubu]

No matter how late - I read all the comments.

Can't repeat it often enough, this is not about correct guesses oe even first correct guesses, but more about comments on the music.

And yes, a note of thankful receipt is the least one should post. I understand sh.. happens and consumes any time for listening, which is what happened to Big Al this time, who is one of the liveliest participants.

Same here, I usually read new comments, too, whenever they are posted!

I missed out on two or three so far, and I hope I always sent a mail or PM to explain and apologize, if not, please consider this my apology! -_-

ubu

[mikeweil]

No reason to apologize - I think the BFTers know each other pretty well by now - of course we're still open for new pairs of ears!