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Posted

AlRIGHT! :tup

My first impressions of Disc 2:

1. Nice energy, if a little sloppy in the opening and a little mundane in terms of the melody. I like the tenor solo, but the pianist’s comping leaves me a little cold. Not too crazy about the trumpet solo (sounds a bit rushed, out of control, but I know that could be intentional). Piano solo doesn’t get me. Overall I’d have to say thumbs down.

2. Not my kind of thing from the get-go, but mostly listenable. I recognize the quality of musicianship (and I mean across the board on this), even if it’s not to my taste stylistically.

3. I have to say, I find the head on this to be very irritating. I’ve heard too many compositions like this that sound contrived to my ears. It has a certain generic “trying to be clever” quality to it, which doesn’t work for me. It does have an intricate and logical structure, but it doesn’t strike me as very musical (at least not in an appealing way, to my ears). Anyway, it’s subjective, no doubt, but that’s my opinion. On second listen, I can see how a musician would enjoy the challenge of playing this, but as a listener I just find it too schizoid. Oh well...

4. Oh man, this is too hard. How do you expect anybody to recognize something like this? :g A stone cold classic, one of my favorite songs from one of my favorite LP’s on one of my favorite labels by one of my favorite guitarists. It never ever ever gets old, and I’ve been listening to his recordings since... well, since before he was well known, and only a couple of years after he passed away. This is jazz for all time, no doubt about it.

5. This falls into the “I don’t love it, but I really appreciate it” category. Nice composition, very nicely exectued, fresh approach to instrumentation. It’s a little slow and depressing for my taste, but every once in awhile this would catch me in the right mood.

6. A modern take on “Memories Of You”. I think I got more out of the harmonic restructuring of it than I did from the solos, but it’s well played.

7. Nice hard bop ensemble sound... from the golden era no doubt... but the melody is only faintly familiar, and doesn’t strike me as particularly great or distinctive.

8. Wow... I feel like I should know this, for some reason. There’s something about the confident, proud feel of this that makes me think this is a big name player, but I can’t put my finger on who. The opening almost sounded like Duke tone-wise, but it’s a bit too modern. It’s got that sense of tradition flowing under a very modern mood. Roland Hanna? That’s kind of a shot in the dark. I like the contrast of the spare use of the left hand against the flowery and colorful splashes created with the right hand. It really allows you to hear the bassist very clearly, too. This is music that invites you right in to sit down and relax. If I don’t own this already, I’ll definitely be looking to hear the rest of this disc.

9. Another tasty piano trio. My first impulse (since I really don’t know) is to guess that it’s Herbie Nichols or Randy Weston... neither of whom I’ve spent enough time familiarizing myself with. This is wonderful stuff (and I probably own it :rolleyes: ).

10. Yeah, baby. That’s Grant on guitar for sure... not sure I own this one, though. I’m not sure who the organist is. McDuff? Patterson? Great stuff, at any rate. I like this better than the slower, greasier, funkier kind of organ trio material.

11. This reminds me of some of the weaker playing I’ve heard by Freddie Hubbard. I’m not wild about the tune, don’t care much for the trumpet solo... I liked the vibes solo better, but can’t say I enjoy this too much overall.

12. “Samba de orfeu” (or “orpheus”). Our man GG again. This is from the Cobblestone/Muse LP, yes? I let go of that one and never picked it up again. That was the album where the organist was mis-identified for many years (it’s Larry Young, not John Patton), IIRC. Also, most sources say this was recorded in ‘67, but I’m trying to remember if this was also in error...

13. I’m having a hard time examining this, because every time I play it (just spun it for the third time in a row), my mind gradually drifts away from thoughts about what the musicians are doing, to that quiet place where your mind goes when you’re just groovin’ to the music. I really like this. :) I’ve never heard it before, don’t know who it is yet... I’ll have to keep trying in terms of examination...

Posted

How surprisingly refreshing to hear so many familiar sounds and hardly have to

rack my feverish brain to come up with answers to the majority of these tracks.

Here goes:

1) Sounds very much like a Sun Ra recording featuring John Gilmore. It cooks.

What's not to like?

2) It's too easy to just ID these people. The first question here for me is

the name of the piece as the group recorded quite a few beautiful originals

like this one in the studio during the mid & late '60s; and the 2nd question

is from what exact European locale was this done, I assume, during the group's

tour in the fall of '67?

3) One of my favorite recordings by this artist which mystifyingly has not been

reissued on a single CD in the U.S. AFAIK. I've had the LP for years.

It certainly was on the OOP Mosaic box. Anyway, this track is the last on

http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&t...10:ktdqoauayijv

4) "Street of Dreams" from this appropriately named album:

http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&t...10:ab6htr5lkl2x

5) Don't know. Can't guess.

6) Ah, I've collected this giant's recordings on LP and all the CD reissues I can

find as well. Tune is obviously "Memories of You" from this album:

http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&t...10:4f867u5070jf

7) Another classic Blue Note side. The original on LP commands a healthy dollar

amount. The pianist leader also appears on your first disc. Track #1 on

http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&t...10:z0tvad7kt8w2

8) No idea.

9) While I was not familiar with this track, I was delighted that his style is so

recognizable. One of the "Four Lives in the Bebop Business", this track with Max

on drums appears on the 2nd disc of this box set:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00...9253865-4741506

10) Grooving organ. Can't name this blues piece but I'm sure it's been recorded by

others.

11) Ah, "The Moontrane". Trumpet player is so identifiable in this live date led by

my favorite vibes player. I think this CD is now OOP. Too bad for those who don't

have it, it's great. Check this link:

http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&t...10:4vjteay14xd7

12) Organ and guitar swinging on "Samba de Orfeu". That's all I know.

13) Liked this alot. Thought it was a Gil Evans orchestration but on 2nd listening

am not so sure. Tenor sounds Wayneish but not him, I think.

Very, very enjoyable disc!

Posted

12) Organ and guitar swinging on "Samba de Orfeu".  That's all I know.

I recognized it as soon as it started! Track 2 from this album, which I should never have traded away ages ago (and which continues to spark debate as to the identity of the organist!)

Posted

12. “Samba de orfeu” (or “orpheus”). Our man GG again. This is from the Cobblestone/Muse LP, yes? I let go of that one and never picked it up again. That was the album where the organist was mis-identified for many years (it’s Larry Young, not John Patton), IIRC.

I thought it had been pretty well established...

Posted

I'm hoping that people won't immediately associate the tune with that album and identify the organist based on what they hear, rather than what they remember. I thought it would be a good blindfold track for that reason!

Posted

12.  “Samba de orfeu” (or “orpheus”).  Our man GG again.  This is from the Cobblestone/Muse LP, yes?  I let go of that one and never picked it up again.  That was the album where the organist was mis-identified for many years (it’s Larry Young, not John Patton), IIRC.

I thought it had been pretty well established...

D'OH!!! That'll teach me to post before reading what had come before!!! Sorry about that! :red-faced embarrassment:

Posted

I'm hoping that people won't immediately associate the tune with that album and identify the organist based on what they hear, rather than what they remember. I thought it would be a good blindfold track for that reason!

:tup That's a good thought/idea, although there's a certain element of idealistic thinking there, IMO. That is, there may be more of us who are able to associate the tune with the album (and who have read about the confusion/debate) than there are who can differentiate the sounds/styles of different organists. If it were that easy to differentiate, there never would have been (much of) a debate about who the organist was.

...Come to think of it, there wasn't much of a debate, really. But there were a few people who knew Larry's sound and/or talked to people that had inside info, right?

Posted

Disk 2

1. Sun Ra!

2. Somewhat reminiscent of Maiden Voyage, but I'll guess Wayne Shorter.

3. Sounds like Bobby Hutcherson's Dialogue. Could be Andrew Hill leading instead

4. Vibes with organ. John Patton's Let 'em roll?

5. Very cool slow organ and trumpet feature. Tomasz Stanko?

6. Thad Jones- Mel Lewis big band? Nicely segued from previous, different styles united by mood.

7. More Hard Bop. Art Blakey and the Jazz Messengers?

8. Nice elegant piano trio work. Tommy Flanagan?

9. Herbie Nichols composition, but not Herbie. Geri Allen? Frank Kimbrough is another logical possibility.

10. More greaze. Lonnie Smith?

11. Lee Morgan? Live band with vibes. Hmm.

12. The song is that Brazilian song heard on the Target commercial as Sweet Happy Life or something. I'm good for two Jimmy Smith guesses on this sad day.

13. Jobim tune. Gerald Wilson, maybe?

Posted

Ok, you want straight reaction? Here it is - first listen to this disc is as I post. Let's see how it goes...

TRACK ONE - Ra on Horo? The bassless quartet? That sounds like Gilmore, fersure. Hell yeah! Michael Ray can PLAY! As could they all.

TRACK TWO - Ok, a Miles boot. "Riot". What can you say? Some of the greatest music of the 20th century. Or maybe of all time (except that I've not heard all the music of all time to make a fair comparison. But I'll take my chances...). This is NUTS! Don't think I have this show, I'd remember this. Fuck Wynton Marsalis.

TRACK THREE - ANDREW!!!! My favorite album of his, period. Gilmore is SUCH a bitch on this side. Hell, they ALL are. Found this album in the Treasure City cutout bins when I was 15 or 16. Made me an instant hit with the chicks. Check out Joe Chambers, MY GOD! Defintiely a desert island side for me. Perfect music afaic.

One, but only one, of the above sentences is a lie. I'll leave it up to you to figure out which one.

TRACK FOUR - Gold, silver and gold... And Green. Some more perfect music. That opening lick of Hutch's solo is one that comes to me out of the blue at almost any time and place for no good reason, and has for years now. Larry..yeah.

jesus christ, that's as good as it gets (not that that's the only way it gets that good...). Giants used to walk the Earth, folks, remember that as we grow older, and don't be fooled into thinking otherwise. Many will try (and aRE trying). Fuck them and keep it real. It's better to be diappointed by the truth than to be thrilled by a lie.

ELVIN!!!

TRACK FIVE - Sounds like a Haden tune. Or maybe Bach. Whatever.

Let us pray. I mean that.

Ya' know Cary, I can tell (I think) that you've spent a lot of time in the country. Outdoors. At night. When it's QUIET. Listening. To everything (and at night, outdoors, in the country, when it's quiet, there's a lot to listen to).

Keep that. It'll serve you well.

TRACK SIX - Mingus. Memories of praying. In the city. When it's not/never quiet.

But needs to be. So Bill makes it so. Or so he hopes.

Of you.

TRACK SEVEN - Something Blue Note, a nicely different set of changes. I have this, what is it, DAVIS CUP? After a while, they all start to blend together, which is cool, because then it's not about the records anymore, or the players, or the tunes, but just about the feel. And feel is the name of the game.

TRACK EIGHT - DRAMATIC stereo coming out of my PC speakers! On a piano trio! Ellington-ish in result, if not in means. Might be Herbie Nichols, I've kinda not listened to him for a while now and gotten "off" on what is and isn't him. But those aren't really his type of changes... Elmo Hope? Hell, you got me on this one. But it's a good'un.

TRACK NINE - Now THIS could be Herbie Nichols. Whether it is or not, I'm not sharp enough to say. But I'll put a burger on it that it is. Aw hell, a burger and fries! Pretty sure that that's Max, so make it double meat, ok?

Ok, it's played long enough. That IS Herbie Nichols! Feed me! :g

TRACK TEN - His Majesty, King Baby Face. Damn, even when giants walked the earth, the non-giants were still pretty damn big. Something else to remember as time goes by.

TRACK ELEVEN - Moontrane! Nice and brisk! O...k...yeah, I know what this is from. An obscurity made even more so in it's near-stillborn cd form. This bad boy needs to be reissued asap and kept in print for perpetuity. Ask for it by name. Often. Michael reads his e-mail ya' know!

Bobby's going through those changes like they were butter and he was a hot knife in the hand of a very patient starving man. That's how it should be.

TRACK TWELVE - Ah, the (formerly) mystery-organist album! What's the name of this tune, Samba somethingorother... Always reminds me of "A Lot Of Livin' To Do". It's the bridge where they seperate, changewise. Oh well, lots of mysteries, but not as to whether or not I like this cut! Think about it - those three cats just showed up, set up, laid down an album's worth oof tunes, packed up and split. All in a few hours. No, it's not that easy, but if this album was sorta produced oon the fly like it's rumored to have benn, then maybe this time it was. And we still get great pleasure and deep satisfaction from the results of those few hours of relatively casual work. Try doing that today. Hell, try getting that today. It's doable, but it takes WORK now. Such is the world in which we live.

TRACK THIRTEEN - Maria Schnieder? No matter, I like the writng a lot more than the playing, both in the solos and in the ensembles. Oh well...

Hey, that's another great ride you've given me. I owe you one, I guess. Next time you come to town... ;)

Posted

Boy Disc Two is even tougher than the first.

Not too well versed on harmon mutes and the whos that play them but Cary likes his muted horn fer certain.

T1- No clue here and trying to like this line up.

T2- Some bootlegged Miles. Is that too splashy to be Tony Williams? Sound like him to me and I could not pick that out. Is this the Japan concert w/ Rivers?? I'm really just guessing.

T3- Now not knowing tone of vibists I might actually bet money that this is Hutcherson. Cary turned me on to much of Hutch's out of print stuff years ago and thanks again! This, if it is, is probably in my files.

T4- paging JimR!

T5- Another piece that reminds me of the break on disc one. I'm guessing Dave Douglas here. Very nice piece. The electrofied keybs remind me of some of those later day Sidran albums. This is a pretty cool tune that I first passed by on take one.

T6- More mutes ... not Miles but ...

T7- Whoa boy! I see that Marty sez he met him (other thread). I actually sketched him at a club in NYC when he was sitting in w/ the Messengers. Butcher paper and crayons at every table so how could one resist. My table mates tore it out and showed him. He came over during a break and said he liked it (he was a big dude and I was afraid he might not) and kept it. Nice guy!! I finally got this disc via eBay a couple weeks back (hence how i might know who it is). Fantastic session!!! What was I waiting for? 'Cups' runnin over! Mac is on fire and playing quite in that Cool Struttin' fashion here. Walter even has some moments of - "hey ain't that Sonny".

T8- Another pretty one. Shoot I got so excited bouncing around to that last one that this has me trying to settle down. Gots no clue.

T9- Again very nice... it will be nice to hear what these last two are. Nice cuts to include.

T10- Wait what's this. No discs with me but this is ARIC'S main face. "Swingin @ Sugar Rays" ?

T11- Damn, what is this. I got this on the tip of the vibe mallet. Hutcherson again reprising a standard of his?? It is the trumpet players date, no? This is cookin'!

T12- Oh a tricky one, Samba de Orpheus ... but based upon that debate on the BNBB we are not certain that this is who it sez it is are we or did I just miss who it really is when Soul Stream figured it all out. Anyway it's GG from that album named after midwestern beer.

T13- Knowing the completist in .:. I'm tossing up a guess that this is from the Wilson Mosaic. I recall that there are some weird tunes on that and that .:. has it for the Hutcherson who is not heard here but if that is not it then I am a fool. Not sure how much I get into the hand drums and berimbau in the lush big band setting as I usually like that exotica chees on top. If it is that PacJazz set then maybe all ya'll will go and buy it so it goes out of print and i can call Mosaic and get the first disc only.

A very nice couple of discs and seeing the few results already it seems you have stumped the big guns over on thread one. Anxious to lurk amid the discussion.

Posted

eins: this starts off nice and sloppy in a good way. The pianist is utter craziness, again in a good way. He draws my attention. The tenor does his work well and good, as does the trumpet with some more spit and fire. Bass being shared between piano and some eelectric device conjures a nice mood. The piano solo is less wack than the comping. I like this. My guess - and it's a guess as I don't know much of this stuff at all - is that it's from Saturn, also because of the tenor (Gilmore?)

zwei: plunk, a bit of a bitten off start with my favourite artist to skip when record hunting. Sounds like Herbie and Tony alright and Wayne too. However cool this may be in some objective way of looking at it, I still think it sucks because of that feghing trumpet. Stuff the puffing and PLAY for a change willya!

drei: Andree van den Heuvel from the winking album. Plingplongplingplong, the guy sounds depressed even if it's all pretty upbeat. Listen to the contrast between Hill going full power cerebral on us and Hutchee's frantic fun. Andrew is really dragging the vibes down with the comping. That's good if you are the leader and sculptor, so kudos; it is bad if you like to look for the silver lining instead of the dark grey clouds. The tenor seems a bit lost with this and only plays short phrases instead of long lines that develop an own story. No room for that with Hill. If I'm in the mood it's the best there is. I've been stuck outside that mood for quite some time now, though... And I am not complaining.

vier: Grant Gracious! What a relief after all that cerebrality! Green and Young with Hutch again. See, here hutch continues to be all happy, matching the sound of his doorbells. Ding dong! Visitors! Look they brought presents! Grant does his patented getting stuck on one note stuff to great effect (much like Booker Ervin, Grant only has two solos: one where he does get stuck on note, and one where he doesn't; throw in Horace Parlan who has the same characteristic, and Tucker/Harewood for the appropriate support and you got the bestest silly stuff you can imagine, and it's on Up & Down and ooo so groovy) I digress, this is feghing great.

fünf: choich orgam electrified keys & trumpet. sniff. 'snice

sechs: Memories. just played the album. Nice pairing with previous track. Though with its humour, this one is more of a comment on the former. It all sounds serious as hell, but there are these little tiny feghy feghy pointy things sticking out on many sides and not even too often so they have much more effect. Knepper is dead funny I think, the beat up to the tenor fits only if you're not too serious; threatening to escape.

sieben: 's make it! only recently got this one and well, it has all the fire of a great BN session. Byrd sounds great here, not as skimpy as he often would later on. Jackie is still the sharp toned bird disciple and the rhythm dudes rock like Gibraltar. aah... splendid

acht: shit, I know this. Some phrases remind me a lot of Ibrahim, sounding grand and proud, then it all dissolves again and I am not sure anymore. Very pretty anyways. Contemplating without getting all worked up and important. Very elegant.

neun: Herbie Nichols(?) I really like how this tells all in the head and then fleshes that out into great detail. No surprises in the solo really, no grand eruptions, just gentle lines, albeit some with more energy than others, that give great depth to what is there. Very melodic. Beautiful.

zehn: STOP! LISTEN! the big grassy knoll on geetarr again. this simply smokes. No more needed, no more asked.

elf: sounds like Shaw on the trumpet; very nice, and live too it seems so I'll forgive the ongoing goings on. This could use some more focus. Hutch on the vibes. ding dong! Someone at the door! MORE presents! Well put them over there in the corner while we have a little dance willya? thanks much. Hutch seems more focused than Woody, somehow. Although he also goes on for ages and I would have forgiven him for running out of ideas. Who dat on piano?

zwölf: Samba tootoodoom. Sounds like Green (again?) and Larry too (again?). Grant does one of his solos where he does not get stuck on one note (amazing that you can tell well in advance!), this is just great. No surprises, just play and play some great. doomdoomdumdoomdoom-

switch to extra european only deluxe DISK THREE for track:

dreizehn: oh, very pretty beginnings. The brasilia beat always strikes me as a bit teehee, and the person on the percussion gets lost or so it seems. Trying VERY hard to blend the amateurish drum beats out (must be the leader as far up in the mix it is... <_< ) The problem will likely be my strange idea of what rhythm is and a beat and all that, but shit man, can someone shoot the trommler? Luckily it all settles somewhat halfway through, but a great tune is ruined. Yet, I quite like this.

Posted

TRACK THREE - ANDREW!!!! My favorite album of his, period. Gilmore is SUCH a bitch on this side. Hell, they ALL are. Found this album in the Treasure City cutout bins when I was 15 or 16. Made me an instant hit with the chicks. Check out Joe Chambers, MY GOD! Defintiely a desert island side for me. Perfect music afaic.

One, but only one, of the above sentences is a lie. I'll leave it up to you to figure out which one.

you paid full price for that, fess up!? it was that Karla Bley / Steve Swallow album from BFT 4 that was a cut-out. :wub:

Posted

it was that Karla Bley / Steve Swallow album from BFT 4 that was a cut-out. :wub:

never, not in THOSE days!

no, THAT was the one that was a hit with all the chicks, they say that cat jim is a bad...

SHUTYOMOUTH!

Posted

On to disc 2 ....

Track 1: The Heliocentric master, from one these two Italian double LPs. Have one of them on cassette, borrowed the LP from a friend back then, but never got around to borrow the second, his girl friend was faster ... Love it, would love to have a CD of this. Is it out or still in preparation?

Track 2: EVIL SIVAD SELIM - a live recording from the mid-1960's quintet with Wayne, Herbie, Ron and Tony. What can you say about these cats? They were frighteningly inventive. The only band that really kicked Miles in the ass, which he needed to play his best.

Track 3: Now there's some Andrew! Yeah! What can you say? Great stuff, one of the masters to keep the music open and defined at the same time. The one with John Gilmore and Bobby Hutcherson?

Track 4: Forever young and green on the road of nightmares .... too bad the vibist is the only still alive of the four ... have enjoyed this for many years. the interaction between organ and drums is magnificent!

Track 5: Beautiful! Trumpet and organ, very rare combination. Nice how the bass supports the organ. Almost religious in its concentration. Will buy this too ...

Track 6: The name of that standard escapes me right now, but I know Monk played it. Love this rendition - I love the overall mood on these discs so much!

Nice how the pick up the tempo for the tenor solo.

Track 7: Some Blue Note date with Jackie Mac - he plays a nice solo here, if I only could like his tone ... Kenny Drew on piano? Donald Byrd? I don't have this one. Arthur Taylor on drums.

Track 8: My attention begins to fade - too much at this point. I will resume writing later.....

Well, I can't identify this pianist, and he doesn't really catch my attention. Just my taste. But I don't hear any development in his solo, it ends like it started, and he needn't play so many chorusses to say it. Too meandering.

Track 9: Herbie Nichols!!!!!! One of the tracks I like the best. Great mood!I have all of his trios, should listen to them more often.

Track 10: I have that somewhere .... more Jimmy Smith? Most certainly. Grant Green. Blue Note.

Track 11: This should be from the Hutcherson live album with Woody Shaw, was that at Montreux. The Moontrane? That's some of the best Woody solos I have heard.

Track 12: Samba de Orfeu - I could imagine a better drummer for this, Grady Tate was much better at playing Brazilian style in jazz contexts, this is a little stiff. Sounds very much like Grant Green again.

Track 13: No idea who this is. The Brazilian percussion makes it different from the average big band of this type - a nice touch. Tenor player's too busy for my taste.

Two grest discs stuffed with many tracks that exactly match my taste - thank you so much!!!

Posted

Again, thanks for preparing this BFT. Writing my notes as I listen.

1. Excellent. Interesting - simple, but not trivial theme – something Andrew Hill could have written. Short solos, but very to the point and with a great deal of tension. This trumpet is soaring – pheeew. Hubbard? Tenorist is excellent (but the solo it too short!) – surely I know him, but just, just the name does not come up at the moment somehow ;) Now, what’s up with this bass?! – Is it electric keyboard-bass (bassett?) or something? – sounds quite clumsy to me. I assume this is pianist’s date, since if he were a sideman nobody would allow him to butcher the date this way. At 4 minutes it’s too short – will listen again! Looking forward to learning who it is and getting this disc (although sound like this is a vinyl – shit).

2. Bootleg sound quality, but excellent music. This is Hancock’s theme. Tenor is POWERFUL. Just beautiful. Trumpet solo is sublime – and more aggressive and technical than he tended sounded in the studio (making me think for a moment –could this be Hubbard playing like Miles?). Excellent. Hopefully we’ll see some legit live releases by this band one day.

3. Wait, now this definitely sound like Andrew Hill! Yeah, good stuff. Time to start listening to this Mosaic box I bought (for quite big $$) more than a year ago… Didn’t know Hill recorded with vibes (Hutcherson, I assume?). Excellent bass – this has to be Richard Davis. Love this bass-drums interplay during the piano solo. Vibes solo – oh yes, this is Hutcherson. Just can’t concentrate on the solo – bass and drums are too good! Who’s the drummer – JC Moses… Joe Chambers? Probably Chambers – this “composer” drumming style. Oh, there is tenor here as well. Excellent solo. Not sure exactly who it is right now (shame on me). Sounds like the guy from the track 1, btw.

4. Heh, heh, smooth start – a bit of an anti-climax after the previous track. Beautiful, beautiful guitar sound. Grant Green. What, again vibes?!… and again Hutcherson?! Heey, this are some hints at powerful drumming restrained – Elvin Jones! Guitar solo just pleasure to follow – it unrolls so effortlessly. Vibes solo is very much in the same mood and style as guitar solo – and thus less interesting. Organ. Normally not a big fan of 60s Hammond, this guy is just adding more substance and edge to it than anybody had done before him. Should get this CD.

5. More organ. OK. Nice trumpet sound. Oh, just too much pathos in the organ solo. Lonnie Liston Smith? Don’t like it. Again trumpet. Taking themselves a bit too seriously, aren’t they?

6. Trumpet sounds so fragile here. Nice. Wonderful warm trombone sound – but a short solo. Good shift to double-tempo – it was becoming too sleepy otherwise. Nice tenor solo, but just to short to become anything else than nice. Overall quite good, but I am left wit ha feeling that something even more interesting could have been achieved if musicians stretched themselves a bit here.

7. Swinging. Good piano solo. Good trumpet solo. Good alto solo (McLean?). Not exactly sure how it is different from 10,000 other ‘50s-‘60s hard bop records, but enjoyable. Yeah, drum solo is also good. Again, enjoyable, but I am just not too much inclined to listen to music like this these days.

8. Oh, a “spiritual” beginning (like something Pharoah Sanders could write). Piano I like, but drums are annoyingly simple (and recorded upfront as well) – surely the pianist (early Abdullah Ibrahim (when he was still Dollar Brand), possibly?) deserves more imaginative accompaniment. Bass is also not particularly shining. Actually, bass is no good, I’d say. Interested about the pianist – really would have preferred if this were a solo: bass/drums did not add a bit.

9. Nice team – I think I hear it before. The piano I like – economy of means, but good ideas. Could be Ellington? No this is not Ellington – Ellington sounded more confident - this sounds like the guy is shy about what he is playing. This is Herbie Nichols (and the theme sounds like Nichols’ theme). Good stuff. Bass/drums are OK… wait a minute, is this Max Roach on drums? Bass I really don’t like – too boom-boom-boom and no subtlety, particularly given very gentle piano approach. But overall, very nice.

10. Ah-hem, swinging organ. This is what I meant by no depth and substance – this sounds like empty chatter to me. Well-played. OK, guitar is also fairly generic. Well-played. Actually, the guitar is not that bad, and I know the guitar player, but hmm, forgot (Pat Martino, possibly?… some of his later stuff? –I only know his early Music works, but I remember seeing him 3-4 years ago in Philly woth an organist – got bored and left). Still, not something I would be too interested in listening to.

11. Moontrane. Woody Shaw. Don’t remember this particular recording, but pretty sure that’s him (could this be the “Stepping Stone” live Columbia album?). Beautiful – such a clear and powerful sound, and a quick mind. Oh, more vibes? More Hutcherson?!?!? Didn’t know they recorded together…The solo is quite good, if with a number of clichés. This fast vibes part surely is impressive! Come on, this is a long solo. Piano solo – good one. Is this Ronnie Matthews, the guy who also wrote a couple of excellent tunes? Well, all this trades with drummer are nothing special. Well, this is a long track. Probably wouldn’t have minded listeing to Woody soloing all though it, but with the other solos, I did get bored a but by the end. Good stuff, nonetheless.

So we should get the organ next, right?

12. Sure – here we go, an organ. The theme is too light-weight for my taste. Hmm, I’d say that this sounds like Grant Green as well (sound is slightly different – less deep… could this be early George Benson, by chance?), but somehow I enjoy it less than on the track before. This organ I don’t like, and the steady jolly drum beat is starting to get on my nerves (I probably wouldn’t have paid much attention to it if the organ solo were even a bit interesting (IMO)). It’s 5 minutes, and guitar enters again, and I’m already ready for the next track of this BFT.

13. Oh, large form – didn’t expect that here. OK, a competent saxophone solo, nothing special. Not sure I like arrangement too much – too polished, and inclusion of these Middle-Eastern instruments sounds forced and kitsch-y to me. Good trumpet solo –I think it’s Hubbard again. Overall, no particular emotions toward this one – neither positive, nor negative.

Thanks, .:.impossible.

Posted (edited)

1. Great tune! I love the soloing by the horns. I know who these guys are, but I can’t place it right now. The pianist doesn’t sound especially competent, although that could very well be intentional. I’d love to hear more of this album.

2. From a live bootleg. That has to be Herbie Hancock. This is a fantastic performance! I just recently received some live material by this quintet, which I have yet to delve into. What else can one say about this group that hasn’t already been said. Just about as good as it gets.

3. From this album: this album This is an excellent album that deserves to be in print. Great composer, and one of his most underrated albums, in my opinion.

4. Grant and Larry. I don’t own this album, and will have to rectify that very soon. What a beautiful track.

5. No clue who this is. Nice, pleasant track. This reminds me of the two back to back tracks on disc one. Not muzak, but very relaxing, decompress from the workday music.

6. No clue. I really enjoy this one. Looking forward to seeing who this is.

7. The pianist has got to be the leader. Nice energy, nothing really jumping out at me that would give away the players. Late 50’s bop, BN?

8. I’d have to guess this is Abdullah Ibrahim, although something in the way he is playing makes me question that. I don’t know which album this is from. I really dig this.

9. No clue who this is. I am really enjoying this track and will have to pick up this album. Whoever this pianist is has a very quirky style, sort of like Monk in it’s uniqueness. Very, very nice.

10. No clue who this is. It almost sounds like Jimmy Smith-lite. Not bad, but nothing I’d go out of my way to grab a copy of. Solidly “ok.”

11. The Moontrane. Off of this sadly oop disc: http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:4zr9281r053a ://http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?...:4zr9281r053a This one really deserves to back in print, as it is a fantastic live performance. Everyone is on fire here. Essential.

12. Sounds like Grant and Larry again, but I’m not familiar with this performance. I’m not liking this track as much as the earlier selection. It is solidly ok, but not more.

13. Really odd recording. The percussion is really dominant in my speakers. No clue who this is. Nothing really exciting me here.

All in all two very enjoyable discs! Thanks again, and I am really looking forward to finding out the personell on the tracks I didn't know.

Edited by John B
Posted

I had a closer listen to track 13, find it's a perfect piece to end the discs, and re-read the others' reactions: I was amazed or rather saddened at the negavtive reaction of three members to the percussion. Can you really imagine a trap set player handling this any better? I seriously doubt this. It would appear a rather typical modern Gil Evans influenced big band with a drummer - I have no idea who wrote this, and I agree with JSngry that the soloists are less interesting than the arrangement - Johnny Coles and Wayne Shorter would highlight this piece for sure, but who has individuals of that caliber these days?

Anyway, the percussion makes it interesting rhythmically, and it is all but amateurisch what these two people play - yes there's two, one on the left speaker playing what must be a kanjira type drum, and a berimbau player on the right. I doubt this was overdubbed. The berimbau is that popular African-derived musical bow from Brazil. A kanjira is a rather small Indian frame drum with a single pair of jingles, from 6 to 8 inches in diameter, with a rather loosely tuned lizard skin, which allows you to bend the pitch by applying varying pressure with your left thumb while the right strikes the skin with the typical sophisticated Indian drumming technique. Now this guy manages to play the Indian stuff in his solo breaks, but uses finger techniques on the jingle during accopaniment that are rather Arabian riqq (another oriental frame drum with five pairs of different sounding jingles) drumming techniques - something a native player never would do. This must be someone like Jamey Haddad who has studied a wide range of techniques.

It seems to me many listeners on this board have 1. only cursory knowledge of ethnic music and its instruments in general and 2. of percussion instruments in particular and 3. have an overall tendency to find all percussion obtrusive if it is mixed at the appropriate natural volume balance, which is the case here.

Being a percussionist myself and fighting for the recognition of these instruments all my musical life I find these reactions somewhat un-open and narrow-minded: after all, the use of the percussion and a specific rhythmic concept beyond a simple bossa nova is what makes this track unique. What can one do to make you appreciate the drum and drummers? I get the impression the connection to rhythm is underdevelopped on this board.

Posted (edited)

13 “Jobim” (Ken Schaphorst) | KEN SCHAPHORST BIG BAND Purple | January 5 & 6, 1998. Solos: Seamus Blake (tenor saxophone), Jamey Haddad (pandiero), Dane Richardson (berimbau), ??? (flugelhorn).

B00000HZTF.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

Wow. Nice reaction. I appreciate you mentioning the level of the percussionists in this composition. I think there are some incredible things going on during the “outro.”

According to the liner notes of this NAXOS JAZZ release, Schaphorst has directed the Jazz Studies program at Lawrence University in Appleton, Wisconsin since 1991, spending much of the previous decade in Boston. As a founding member of the Jazz Composers Alliance, he has worked with and been positively influenced by Sam Rivers and others and their unique approach to big band arrangement. This disc is extremely varied, yet maintains a real cohesive feel, where you get Schaphorst, not a group of musicians playing a chart. The music on this disc feels like someone. Not perfect, but really working to be who they are without causing a stir.

I've put random tracks from this disc onto mix tapes, or bootleg Medeski shows (because a few tracks prominently feature John Medeski in a very different and positive role) over the past years, and it seems everyone is interested in different tracks. I honestly chose this at random, though I did consider the fact that the previous track on the BFT was a samba.

Soloists featured on this disc include the previously mentioned along with Donny McCaslin, Doug Yates, Brad Shepik, Dave Taylor, Uri Caine, Andy Gravish, Josh Roseman, Curtis Hasslebring, Dave Ballou, and Jay Brandford.

edit: added image.

Edited by .:.impossible
Posted

well mike, I am so connected to MY inner rhythm that as soon as the dude on the left starts hammering his thing, I get all quirky because he simply does not hit the thing at the right time or with much of a feewing IMHO. I have no problems whatsoever connecting to more complex rhythms being played, but whatever this person is playing, just doesn't strike me as correct in a couple of places in the first half of the tune. And even if that can be okay at times, it isn't here. Like I wrote, I quite like this tune really and even more after repeated listenings and I have no problem with the percussion being so far up front in the mix.

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