Ornette's Kid Drummer

[Jazz Kat]

I have just listened to samples of this recording. It's odd. Does it even swing at all? I can't tell at all from 5 second samples, but it seems the artists were just blowing chicken scratch. How was this kid at the drums? How is the album?

[JSngry]

I like this album quite a bit. The kid wasa kid at the time, and plays like one, which was sort of the point. But it's ok - Ornette & Charlie don't seem to be bugged by him at all and play just fine. Others disagree, often strongly.

And BTW - the kid turned out to be a pretty damn good drummer once he grew up.

[Jazz Kat]

From the little I heard on Empty Foxhole, was, that he didn't quite have the chops yet, but his playing was actually quite imaginative.

[Rooster_Ties]

I've only heard Empty Foxhole (which I've had since the first batch of Conns over 10 years ago), and I've always wondered about the other recording(s?) with young Denardo (say anything under the age of 17).

The only other one I'm aware of is ORNETTE AT 12, when Denardo was 12. Are there any others I'm forgetting?? Thanks!!

(Afraid I'm not very up on what relatively little Ornette that hasn't been released on CD.)

Edit: Hey, did Denardo have to join the musicians union in order to make those recordings?? (Could you even join if you were that young??) What were the musician union regulations about such things back then??

Edited February 7, 2005 by Rooster_Ties

[Rooster_Ties]

PS: I've got an extra (duplicate) Empty Foxhole conn, if anybody's hurtin' for one.

And just cuz this is his thread, Jazz Kat's got the right of first refusal.

Edited February 7, 2005 by Rooster_Ties

[JSngry]

  Jazz Kat said:

From the little I heard on Empty Foxhole, was, that he didn't quite have the chops yet, but his playing was actually quite imaginative.

Exactly.

[Jazz Kat]

Ornette would have had any other drummer he might have had play on that recording that same way, so.... He even helps the "free jazz" concept with his unique, but in the same way, childish playing.

[fkimbrough]

I think he played on "Crisis" too. Sadly, I don't think it was ever released on CD, but it was one of my favorite Ornette albums, recorded live at NYU's Loeb Student Center - with Don Cherry, Dewey Redman, Charlie Haden and (I think) Denardo. It's been almost 30 years since I heard it, but I think it was on Impulse. Some of the tunes were "Broken Shadows", "Comme Il Faut", and "Trouble in the East". Anybody out there have this one?

[JSngry]

Yes, and he does. I'd forgotten that Denardo was on that one. for some reason, I was thinking it was Blackwell. The memory's going fast...

[kh1958]

He also plays on the 1969 impulse recording Crisis. Is this one Now fairly rare? I recall a great version of Broken Shadows on this LP.

[Guest ariceffron]

WASNT THE FACT THAT HE USED HIS 12 YEAR OLD ON THE DISC, USED AS A MAJOR ARGUMENT AGAINST FREE JAZZ AND WHAT IT STANDS FOR/VS. REGULAR JAZZ AT THE TIME, ETC?

[John L]

  ariceffron said:

WASNT THE FACT THAT HE USED HIS 12 YEAR OLD ON THE DISC, USED AS A MAJOR ARGUMENT AGAINST FREE JAZZ AND WHAT IT STANDS FOR/VS. REGULAR JAZZ AT THE TIME, ETC?

Yes.

Sometimes I think that Ornette tried to keep the critical establishment off guard deliberately. Just when his alto playing started to become accepted, he picked up the trumpet, then the violin. When his quartets and trios became widely appreciated, he stuck Denardo in on drums. When the critical establishment became comfortable in classifying Ornette as a primitive genius of pure improvisation and melody, he started producing through-composed works for symphony orchestra. When the jazz establishment began looking to Ornette as a remaining leader of acoustic free jazz, he set up Prime Time. In the mean time, Ornette continually commented in interviews that he was completely misunderstood by the critics, even those who praised him.

Edited February 8, 2005 by John L

[Guest ariceffron]

hey john l.- aren't you the dude who did the only hank jazz magazine interview, from downbeat 1970? what a good article- i used to have it up on my website. any interesting hank q's or items of interest that were edited/left out of the interview??

[John L]

  ariceffron said:

hey john l.- aren't you the dude who did the only hank jazz magazine interview, from downbeat 1970? what a good article- i used to have it up on my website. any interesting hank q's or items of interest that were edited/left out of the interview??

No. That's not me. I never met Hank, unfortunately.

[JSngry]

That was John Litwieler, who also posts here.

[John L]

Figures. I got the John Litw part alright, but the last few letters kept me away from Hank.