Cecil Taylor/Buell Neidlinger 1961

[slide_advantage_redoux]

Found this LP yesterday. Haven't played it yet, but will soon.

It is on Barnaby Records, and is a release of a previously unreleased session for Candid, recorded in january of 1961.

The LP is entitled "New York City R&B"

On O.P. and Cell Walk for Celeste, listed artists are:

Cecil Taylor, Buell Neidlinger, and Billy Higgins

On Cindy's Main Mood:

Cecil, Buell, Archie Shepp, and Dennis Charles.

So far no surprises, but here it gets interesting:

On "Things ain't what they used to be", which is the only standard on the LP:

Cecil, Buell, Shepp, Higgins, Steve Lacey (sic), Roswell Rudd, Charles Davis (bari sax) and Clark Terry.

I can see how the others would be there, but Clark Terry? I love Clark's playing, but he seems like an odd bedfellow in this case.

Edited February 7, 2005 by slide_advantage_redoux

[brownie]

This was a session led by Buell Neidlinger for Candid. It was not released at the time of its recording, most probably because Candid went bellyup. The session was first released on that Barnaby label which reissued material from Candid.

Two Ellington-related compositions were recorded then: 'Things Ain't What They Used to Be' and 'Jumpin' Punkins'. The full session with Clark Terry - and alternate takes - was released as part of the Complete Cecil Taylor on Candid Mosaic box.

[Daniel Andresen]

Why do you claim the session wasn't released by Candid???

I have this Candid CD (which is my only Taylor CD - He is usually too weird for my liking).

[Michael Fitzgerald]

*At the time of its recording*.

CD is no big thing. Now if you had an original LP of this, that would be evidence, but there is no such thing.

Mike

Edited February 7, 2005 by Michael Fitzgerald

[brownie]

Why do you claim the session wasn't released by Candid???

I have this Candid CD (which is my only Taylor CD - He is usually too weird for my liking).

I was speaking of the original Candid label. The label was active in the early '6Os. Nat Hentoff supervised the recording sessions. Then the label went down

Candid was resurrected two decades later in Europe. With original Candids reissues and new material of their own. The Taylor CD you have was part of that resurrection!

[Daniel Andresen]

I stand corrected - I misunderstood what you were saying

[medjuck]

Do you mean it never appeared on Lp or the first Lp release was on Barnaby? I rmember seeing it as an Lp in the late 60's (i think) but I'm not sure of the label.

[JSngry]

First LP issue was on Barnaby/Candid, early 1970s, as far as I know.

Edited February 7, 2005 by JSngry

[Chuck Nessa]

First LP issue was on Barnaby/Candid, early 1970s, as far as I know.

Correct.

I don't remember the source but 30+ years ago I was told Clark Terry was a sub for the originally chosen Don Cherry.

[Lazaro Vega]

The Candid CD re-issue of Max Roach's "Freedom Now!" suite is a dub from an lp (and no personnel listings in the liner notes). The Columbia reissue of that from the 80's sounds better.

The Taylor Candid's capture an artist in transition, don't you think?, as well as a musician finding an ensemble of like minded players to begin to realize his own personal music.

[slide_advantage_redoux]

First LP issue was on Barnaby/Candid, early 1970s, as far as I know.

Yep, mine has Hentoff's liner notes dated Nov. '71.

[medjuck]

The Candid CD re-issue of Max Roach's "Freedom Now!" suite is a dub from an lp (and no personnel listings in the liner notes). The Columbia reissue of that from the 80's sounds better.

I have a British Candid cd of We Insist and it's got the personell listings on the back cover. When and where was the Columbia release?

Is this now OOP? That's terrible.

[JSngry]

When and where was the Columbia release?

Very late 70s or very early 80s, when Max had signed a distribution deal w/Bruce Lundvall's Columbia.

[MartyJazz]

I have both the original Candid LP and the Columbia reissue. While the latter does sound better to my ears, the Candid cover of the two black men sitting at the lunch counter with a grim looking white counterman behind him, together with a posted menu (e.g., Tuna sandwich - 40 cents), is just wonderful.

Edited March 10, 2005 by MartyJazz

[JSngry]

I've got it on Amiga, which seems to be a bootleg, but it does have the original cover.

[paul secor]

First LP issue was on Barnaby/Candid, early 1970s, as far as I know.

Correct.

I don't remember the source but 30+ years ago I was told Clark Terry was a sub for the originally chosen Don Cherry.

Remembered reading that more recently, but couldn't think where. Just checked the liner notes to the Mosaic box and Buell Neidlinger states that Don Cherry was supposed to play on this date, but Ornette objected and told him he'd be out of Ornette's band if he recorded with Cecil.

[Michael Fitzgerald]

Which is interesting, since Cherry was out of Ornette's band around this time anyway.

Last Cherry/Coleman recording was Ornette On Tenor - March 27, 1961

Neidlinger/Taylor was June 10, 1961

Ornette's group at the Five Spot July 1961 had Bobby Bradford.

Mike

[paul secor]

I was just repeating what Buell Neidlinger stated. I don't know whether it's a fact or not.

[mjzee]

Fans of Buell Neidlinger should check out Leo Kottke's "Greeting From Chuck Pink." Neidlinger produced it and is all over it. Results in some of Kottke's best work.

[Michael Fitzgerald]

Happened to come across info on this in Cadence 6/86 p.7 interview with Buell Neidlinger:

CAD: Let's go to the New York City R 'n' B date for Candid. It was never issued on Candid, was it?

BN: That album lay in the can of Candid...It was never issued on Candid. It was issued on Barnaby 11 years after its musical manufacture.

CAD: Was it not issued on Candid because the company went under before -

BN: Yeah, the company went well under, it sure did. It went well under courtesy of Candid Bob (Bob Altschuler), as we used to call him, who is now a very big record executive. He was the operating exec.

CAD: I thought it was Hentoff and somebody else.

BN: No, Hentoff was the artistic man there. He was the one who produced the records like that.

CAD: It was then later put out as a co-led session on Jazzman. [should this be Jasmine? mf]

BN: Co-led? Well, first it came out as a co-led session on Barnaby, because John Waxman thought he had to have it co-led to sell. Actually, it was my session. I made it happen, I arranged the repertoire and I told people what to do and they did.

CAD: So it was not originally a co-led session, it was all your session.

BN: Right. Cecil Taylor was paid scale as a sideman just like everyone else and I received double scale for being the leader and $50 for writing the liner notes...total of $300 for doing that album.

======

CAD: On that R 'n' B date -

BN: New York City R 'n' B?

CAD: Right.

BN: Which is my title, I invented it.

CAD: On that particular date you brought together Ellington music and Cecil Taylor, Archie Shepp, Clark Terry, Lacy, Dennis Charles, Roswell Rudd and Billy Higgins.

BN: All my wonderful friends. Clark Terry was the last minute addition, because Don Cherry was supposed to play trumpet, he came to all the rehearsals, but *his* master - Mr. Ornette Coleman - decreed that if he appeared on that recording instead of coming to the rehearsal which he scheduled when he found out about the recording, that Mr. Cherry would no longer be wanted. So I called up Nat Hentoff and he said, "Oh, call Clark Terry and offer him double scale." So I did.

CAD: No rehearsal for Clark Terry?

BN: No rehearsal, no.

CAD: But there was rehearsal for the date in general?

BN: Yes, we rehearsed twice in Ros Rudd's and my loft at 128 Broad Street.

CAD: How do you think Clark Terry fit in there?

BN: As good as he could. I like it. I would have much rather had Don Cherry. The record would have come out, I would have sold a lot more albums and the music would have been more along the lines of what I had envisioned.

CAD: Why did you call Clark Terry?

BN: I was told to by Nat Hentoff.

CAD: You didn't have any control over that?

BN: Who else would I call?

CAD: I don't know.

BN: I don't know either; Joe Thomas -

CAD: Ted Curson.

BN: Tommy Turrentine, Ted Curson. Ted Curson never really understood that kind of music. He had already flunked the Cecilian test. He played and flunked. We've all flunked. Archie Shepp flunked.

CAD: How do you flunk?

BN: I don't know. Call up Cecil and ask him.

Mike

Edited February 20, 2005 by Michael Fitzgerald

[brownie]

Thanks Mike for checking and posting that Cadence interview.

Another trumpet player who flunked the Cecil Taylor test was the Great Kenny Dorham on that 'Hard Driving Jazz/Stereo Drive' UA session.

[JSngry]

From the anecdotal evidence I've heard, I'd say that KD came to the test desiring to flunk!

[king ubu]

I have both the original Candid LP and the Columbia reissue. While the latter does sound better to my ears, the Candid cover of the two black men sitting at the lunch counter with white counterman behind him, together with a posted menu (e.g., Tuna sandwich - 40 cents), is just wonderful.

I read somewhere that Roach was pretty mad about Columbia replacing that great original photo by a nice portrait of his.

ubu

[Luciano]

To Mike Fitzgerald or whoever would like to respond me

BN: All my wonderful friends. Clark Terry was the last minute addition, because Don Cherry was supposed to play trumpet, he came to all the rehearsals, but *his* master - Mr. Ornette Coleman - decreed that if he appeared on that recording instead of coming to the rehearsal which he scheduled when he found out about the recording, that Mr. Cherry would no longer be wanted. So I called up Nat Hentoff and he said, "Oh, call Clark Terry and offer him double scale." So I did.

Well I've been trying to find out for years if cherry played at the rehearsals for this record, BN says he attended the sessions but did he play or was he simply present?

In the hope of receiving a definitive answer I greet everyone with great sympathy