Jewish jazz musicians

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Did anyone mention Izzy Goldberg? One of the great bebop pioneers.

He's magnificent, too

MG

[ValerieB]

happy birthday to an incredibly fabulous musician, Lew Tabackin, who just happens to be of the jewish persuasion.

and isn't Benny Green, the pianist, jewish?

[Bright Moments]

[Swinging Swede]

Did anyone mention Izzy Goldberg? One of the great bebop pioneers.

B. Bopstein too!

[AllenLowe]

"Most American "Jews" are Ashkenazi Jews who have little consanguineous ties to ancient Israel. In reality, most "converted" to this religious-belief system for their personal advantage."

most did this for personal advantage? I assume you have statistical support for this? Polls, interviews? let me quote myself, anyway:

Jews Like Me: Adoration of the Fourth Stream

A recent book, by Steven Lee Beeber (The Heebie Jeebies at CBGBS) tries to reduce all Jewish post-modernist musical activity to the practices of Punk; would that this were simply a marketing ploy for the book, which gets so much wrong in the introduction that it’s hard to slog through its increasingly intellectually muddy pages. Suffice to say that, in it, Lenny Bruce is reduced to street-punk comedian, a questionable idea supported through quotes from dubious authorities (like the band Blondie’s Chris Stein) who, it is clear, have not really listened very closely to Lenny Bruce but appreciate him most as a cultural icon and conveniently hip reference, a name to be dropped as proof of coolness credentials. Symptomatic of this book and the cultural niche that it represents, Chris Stein is a perfect example of what I referred to earlier as a post-literate generation: media saturated from film, television and magazines, and increasingly adept at the kind of intellectual name-dropping shortcuts that this particular book takes on nearly every page. Lenny Bruce himself would have scoffed at being labeled a part of punk, probably would have cracked wise, as William Burroughs did, that a punk was simply a guy who took it while bending over in prison (shades of critics desperate to link Robert Johnson to all that is rock and roll). Bruce was part of a much more complicated socio-intellectual heritage than Chris Stein, a narcissistic figure if there ever was one (see Gary Valentine’s book on the Punk years), would ever take the time to understand. It’s simply not enough that, as Stein notes, he, like Bruce, has shtupped a Shiksa Goddess (in Stein’s case Blondie herself, Deborah Harry). Lenny Bruce, a brilliant ironist macho man, was much more than the sum of his Shiksa-humping escapades. It would have been more illuminating, though inconvenient for this book’s misguided theme, if the author of the book or his editor, Yuval Taylor, had looked a little more deeply into the whole post-War Jewish cultural picture, had shown more than a nodding acquaintance with Bruce and his particular ethos, his influence(s) and associations. Because no matter how far you stretch reality or how creatively you market a book, old-time hipsters ain’t punks.

Interestingly enough, the person who gets it most right in The Heebie Jeebies at CBGBS, in an interview, is the guitarist Marc Ribot (who is on this compact disc), whose perspective on the Jew in post-modern America is intellectually complex yet startling clear, a reflection of real-time experience and thus much closer to explaining the spirit and source of Jewish cultural success. What Beeber and Yuval Taylor miss entirely is that it’s not punk-attitude but real-world socio-intellectual integration that gives Jews their cultural edge. The source of their cultural strength may be seen most particularly in the Yiddish working-class’s tradition of persistent intellectual striving, a tradition that remained strong in the United States even as Jews moved in droves, after World War II, into the middle class. The working class poets and novelists, minstrels, socialists and comedians who flocked to New York’s Lower East Side and elsewhere in the early part of the 20th century set the tone for continuous Jewish cultural achievement, reaching as they did a true accommodation between the functional quality of art and it’s transcendent qualities, understanding as they did both life’s pathos and deep humor; for one related example, the Jewish poets that Josef Stalin murdered in so-called revolutionary Russia were dangerous precisely because of that, because of their intimate knowledge of all sides of life, a knowledge, that, in its true integration with the abstractions of art, amounted to a metaphysical threat to the established order. So it is with not just punk rockers but with outsider comedians like Lenny Bruce, with brilliant musical sharpies like Ribot, geniuses like Davey Schildkraut or amazingly adventurous over-achievers like Mike Bloomfield (who, curiously enough, is never even mentioned in the book, probably because he does not fit its glib punk thesis). And so it seems from my own experiences here in Maine; Jews like us no longer face physical extinction but something which, in the moment (if only in the moment), feels like even more of a threat: intellectual extinction. If history is left to books like this one, well, than, the old phrase that starts “with friends like you” takes on new meaning (and I won’t even get into the book’s butchering of the phrase alta cocker, which, if near the derivation claimed for it, is completely misunderstood – oy, these goyim editors!).

As a post-script, let me add that the dual spirits of Lenny Bruce and Mike Bloomfield hover, inevitably, over my intents and efforts, and on a daily basis. Bruce is one of those cultural icons whose work, thankfully, holds up well in retrospect, his bits and commentaries still funny, trenchant and insightful after all these years. Both of these men were prototype post-modernist (non-punk) Jews, and that may be why I admire them both so much and why I so identify with their lives, with the peculiar arc of inevitable failure that both seemed, so intently and intensely, to live and pursue. Bloomfield, a manic-insomniac with too many projects and interests and ideas, was a real Jew (to quote Annie Hall) as was Bruce. They were dual post-modernists to the core: determined to know everything within reach as it related to their own private interests and obsessions; broadly curious but never indiscriminate in their love and desire for pop culture; reverent toward, but not quite up to pursuing with any intellectual consistency, the highbrow intellectual ideas and ideals of their forefathers; able to look both backwards and forward at the same time, to revere the past but with a cynical and cold eye towards its complexities and contradictions and myths; bitterly determined in personal creative matters, despite intense outside resistance – real and delusional - and hell-bent on fusing the ancient ideal of meditative self awareness with good, old fashioned, latter-day American personal self-destruction. Who wouldn’t identify with all of that?

And let me add that Jewish musicians, from Louis Moreau Gottschalk to Doc Pomus to Mike Bloomfield to Dave Schildkraut, represent a movement of permanent post-modernism (our version of the permanent revolution, with apologies to all of those who suffered the brutalities of Mao and his agents), a vernacular hybrid musical 4th stream of memory, obsession, and aggressive self-interrogation (which is often mistaken for self-hate). We/they are a cult without a leader, freelance wise-asses without portfolio. This is my contribution to that Fourth Stream.

[Teasing the Korean]

"Most American "Jews" are Ashkenazi Jews who have little consanguineous ties to ancient Israel. In reality, most "converted" to this religious-belief system for their personal advantage."

most did this for personal advantage? I assume you have statistical support for this? Polls, interviews? let me quote myself, anyway:

Jews Like Me: Adoration of the Fourth Stream

A recent book, by Steven Lee Beeber (The Heebie Jeebies at CBGBS) tries to reduce all Jewish post-modernist musical activity to the practices of Punk; would that this were simply a marketing ploy for the book, which gets so much wrong in the introduction that it’s hard to slog through its increasingly intellectually muddy pages. Suffice to say that, in it, Lenny Bruce is reduced to street-punk comedian, a questionable idea supported through quotes from dubious authorities (like the band Blondie’s Chris Stein) who, it is clear, have not really listened very closely to Lenny Bruce but appreciate him most as a cultural icon and conveniently hip reference, a name to be dropped as proof of coolness credentials. Symptomatic of this book and the cultural niche that it represents, Chris Stein is a perfect example of what I referred to earlier as a post-literate generation: media saturated from film, television and magazines, and increasingly adept at the kind of intellectual name-dropping shortcuts that this particular book takes on nearly every page. Lenny Bruce himself would have scoffed at being labeled a part of punk, probably would have cracked wise, as William Burroughs did, that a punk was simply a guy who took it while bending over in prison (shades of critics desperate to link Robert Johnson to all that is rock and roll). Bruce was part of a much more complicated socio-intellectual heritage than Chris Stein, a narcissistic figure if there ever was one (see Gary Valentine’s book on the Punk years), would ever take the time to understand. It’s simply not enough that, as Stein notes, he, like Bruce, has shtupped a Shiksa Goddess (in Stein’s case Blondie herself, Deborah Harry). Lenny Bruce, a brilliant ironist macho man, was much more than the sum of his Shiksa-humping escapades. It would have been more illuminating, though inconvenient for this book’s misguided theme, if the author of the book or his editor, Yuval Taylor, had looked a little more deeply into the whole post-War Jewish cultural picture, had shown more than a nodding acquaintance with Bruce and his particular ethos, his influence(s) and associations. Because no matter how far you stretch reality or how creatively you market a book, old-time hipsters ain’t punks.

Interestingly enough, the person who gets it most right in The Heebie Jeebies at CBGBS, in an interview, is the guitarist Marc Ribot (who is on this compact disc), whose perspective on the Jew in post-modern America is intellectually complex yet startling clear, a reflection of real-time experience and thus much closer to explaining the spirit and source of Jewish cultural success. What Beeber and Yuval Taylor miss entirely is that it’s not punk-attitude but real-world socio-intellectual integration that gives Jews their cultural edge. The source of their cultural strength may be seen most particularly in the Yiddish working-class’s tradition of persistent intellectual striving, a tradition that remained strong in the United States even as Jews moved in droves, after World War II, into the middle class. The working class poets and novelists, minstrels, socialists and comedians who flocked to New York’s Lower East Side and elsewhere in the early part of the 20th century set the tone for continuous Jewish cultural achievement, reaching as they did a true accommodation between the functional quality of art and it’s transcendent qualities, understanding as they did both life’s pathos and deep humor; for one related example, the Jewish poets that Josef Stalin murdered in so-called revolutionary Russia were dangerous precisely because of that, because of their intimate knowledge of all sides of life, a knowledge, that, in its true integration with the abstractions of art, amounted to a metaphysical threat to the established order. So it is with not just punk rockers but with outsider comedians like Lenny Bruce, with brilliant musical sharpies like Ribot, geniuses like Davey Schildkraut or amazingly adventurous over-achievers like Mike Bloomfield (who, curiously enough, is never even mentioned in the book, probably because he does not fit its glib punk thesis). And so it seems from my own experiences here in Maine; Jews like us no longer face physical extinction but something which, in the moment (if only in the moment), feels like even more of a threat: intellectual extinction. If history is left to books like this one, well, than, the old phrase that starts “with friends like you” takes on new meaning (and I won’t even get into the book’s butchering of the phrase alta cocker, which, if near the derivation claimed for it, is completely misunderstood – oy, these goyim editors!).

As a post-script, let me add that the dual spirits of Lenny Bruce and Mike Bloomfield hover, inevitably, over my intents and efforts, and on a daily basis. Bruce is one of those cultural icons whose work, thankfully, holds up well in retrospect, his bits and commentaries still funny, trenchant and insightful after all these years. Both of these men were prototype post-modernist (non-punk) Jews, and that may be why I admire them both so much and why I so identify with their lives, with the peculiar arc of inevitable failure that both seemed, so intently and intensely, to live and pursue. Bloomfield, a manic-insomniac with too many projects and interests and ideas, was a real Jew (to quote Annie Hall) as was Bruce. They were dual post-modernists to the core: determined to know everything within reach as it related to their own private interests and obsessions; broadly curious but never indiscriminate in their love and desire for pop culture; reverent toward, but not quite up to pursuing with any intellectual consistency, the highbrow intellectual ideas and ideals of their forefathers; able to look both backwards and forward at the same time, to revere the past but with a cynical and cold eye towards its complexities and contradictions and myths; bitterly determined in personal creative matters, despite intense outside resistance – real and delusional - and hell-bent on fusing the ancient ideal of meditative self awareness with good, old fashioned, latter-day American personal self-destruction. Who wouldn’t identify with all of that?

And let me add that Jewish musicians, from Louis Moreau Gottschalk to Doc Pomus to Mike Bloomfield to Dave Schildkraut, represent a movement of permanent post-modernism (our version of the permanent revolution, with apologies to all of those who suffered the brutalities of Mao and his agents), a vernacular hybrid musical 4th stream of memory, obsession, and aggressive self-interrogation (which is often mistaken for self-hate). We/they are a cult without a leader, freelance wise-asses without portfolio. This is my contribution to that Fourth Stream.

So are B. Bopstein and Izzy Goldberg part of the Fourth Stream?

[AllenLowe]

only if they know their haftorah -

[flat5]

Let me add:

Jay Corre, saxophone

Irv Clark (also called Irv Rochlin) piano

Lee Katzman, trumpet

Allan Praskin, alto sax

Barry Block, sax, clarinet

Mischa Kool, bass

David Rothchild, trombone

Harvey Robb, sax, clarinet

Richard Saunders, bass

Edited May 27, 2008 by flat5

[flat5]

The list so far:

Jewish jazz musicians

Aaron Goldberg

Abe Most

Adam Nussbaum

Adam Rodgers

Al Cohn

Allan Praskin

Andre Previn

Andrea Parkins

Art Hodes

Artie Bernstein

Artie Shaw

Avishai Cohens

Barry Altschul

Barry Block

Ben Perowsky

Ben Sidran

Benny Goodman

Benny Green (UK baritonist)

Benny Green (pianist)

Bernie Fleischer

Bernie Privin

Bob Gordon

Bob Mover

Borah Bergman

Buddy Rich

Burton Greene

Chris Potter

Chubby Jackson

Chuck Israels

Cy Touff

Dave Amran

Dave Frishberg

Dave Schildkraut

David Fiuczynski

David Izenson

David Rothchild (trombone)

Denny Zeitlin

Dick Hyman

Dick Katz

Don Friedman

Don Goldie

Eddie Daniels ?

Errol Parker

Fima Ephron

Flora Purim

Frank Socolow

George Handy

George Wein

George Wettling

Georgie Auld

Harry Connick, Jr.

Harry James

Harvey Robb

Herb Alpert

Herb Geller

Herbie Mann

Hymie Schertzer

Irv Clark

Israel Crosby

Izzy Goldberg

Jay Corre

Jeremy Steig

Joel Futterman

Joey Baron

Joey Bushkin

John Zorn

Josh Roseman

Julius Wechter

Kenny Werner

Kurt Rosenwinkel

Lalo Shifrin

Lee Katzman

Lee Konitz

Len Garment

Lennie Niehaus

Lew Tabackin

Lou Fromm

Lou Levy

Lou Soloff

Lou Stein

Manny Klein

Mark Feldman

Marky Markowitz

Martial Solal

Marty Flax

Marty Grosz

Max Kaminsky

Mel Lewis

Mel Torme

Mezz Mezzrow

Milt Bernhart

Mischa Kool

Paul Horn

Paul Whiteman

Red Rodney

Rene Urtreger

Richard Saunders

Ronnie Scott

Ruby Braff

Russ Freeman

Sacha Distel

Sam Marowitz

Sam Most

Sam Staff

Sammy Davis Jr.

Serge Chaloff

Shelly Manne

Shorty Rogers

Sid Caeser

Sid Weiss

Sol Yaged

Sonny Berman

Stan Getz

Stan Levey

Steve Grossman

Steve Kuhn

Steve Lacy

Teddy Charles

Terry Gibbs

Tiny Kahn

Tonni Kalash

Victor Feldman

Warne Marsh

Willie "The Lion" Smith

Zeena Parkins

Ziggy Elman

Zoot Sims

(record producers/writers)

Alfred Lion

Bob Weinstock

Dan Morgenstern

Don Schlitten

Frank Wolff

Garry Giddins

George Wein

Herb Abramson

Herman Lubinsky

Ira Gitler

Larry Kart

Leonard Feather

Lester Koenig

Max & Sol Weiss

Max Gordon

Milt Gabler

Moses Ash

Nat Hentoff

Norman Granz

Orrin Keepnews

(composers)

Alan Lerner and Frederick Loewe

George and Ira Gershwin

Harold Arlen and Yip Harburg

Irving Berlin

Jerome Kern

Lorenz Hart

Oscar Hammerstein

Richard Rogers

Edited May 27, 2008 by flat5

[BillF]

So far we've had nothing like full recognition of Jewish musicians' contribution to British jazz. Just off the top of my head, I can think of Ronnie Scott, Victor Feldman, Vic Ash, Harry Klein, Jeff Kline, Benny Green, Benny Goodman (drummer), Tony Crombie, Malcolm Cecil, Ron Rubin ... I'm sure there are many more I haven't thought of.

[Joe G]

Missing from the above list:

Kenny Werner

Peter Bernstein

Larry Goldings

Gil Goldstein

Also all the tenor players from Sangrey's post way back; Brecker, Leibman, et al.

Edited May 27, 2008 by Joe G

[Man with the Golden Arm]

and

Steven Bernstein

Anthony Coleman

David Krackauer

and that whole cadre of Tzadikians.

[White Lightning]

Sammy Davis, Jr.

Doesn't count - as I believe we are looking at ethnic influence.

Hello, Fran,

Interesting comment; and this is an interesting thread. A bit scary, really, IMO, but interesting. Had someone started a thread entitled, "Non-Jewish Jazz Musicians" I'm sure lots of folks would be screaming anti-Semitism instead of contributing to it. But that's what is great about Freedom of Ideas and Speech; or at least in Internet-communication theory.

A lot of "Jews," just to give you some historical perspective, are not "ethnically" influenced, as you seem to think is of such relative importance.

In Central and Eastern Europe, many traders and merchants took on the Jewish faith, so that they could trade with both (collectively) the Christians and the Muslims. In this way, they would not offend either trading-party and could exploit trade to their greatest investment advantage.

Over time, such people became "Jews" but were not of "ethnic" Jewish descent.

So... Just because a fellow by the name of Stan Getz is of Ukrainian-Jewish origins, unless one does extensive Haplogroup X-DNA testing, really, there is no way to determine if he is as "ethnic" as you would like to believe.

What really defines "ethnicity" in regards to Jews?

Most American "Jews" are Ashkenazi Jews who have little consanguineous ties to ancient Israel. In reality, most "converted" to this religious-belief system for their personal advantage. Those with true "ethnic influence," as you like to put it; can range from 1% to about 30% of their bloodline. The majority of their genetics is of European descent with very little "ethnicity" of the Jewish bloodline.

If Sammy chose to become Jewish, then I respect that. Being "Jewish" is beautiful, regardless if you have its "ethnicity" or not.

Jazz is important because it can be played and enjoyed by all peoples in any culture, "ethnicity," or sex in life...

That is why it is the greatest and most diverse music in the world.

Please, do not let "ethnicity" determine who is worthy and who is not worthy.

And, yes, I am to believe that I am a MOT (Jewish descent), of which I am very proud; but I do not let it define who I am nor let it define how to judge other peoples. Sammy, ethnically or not, is part of my family.

Thank you for the opportunity to share my POV.

GLTY.

Is it the best BS first post here?

[White Lightning]

Some Jewish-Israelis:

Avishai Cohen (X2)

Anat Cohen

Anat Fort

Omer Avital

Ittai Kriss

Barak Mori

Alon Yavnai

Tamir Hendelman

Yaron Herman

Omer Klein

Eli Degibri

Danniel Zamir

Albert Beger

Abatte Berihun

Yotam Silberstein

Gilad Hekselman

Yonatan Volchock

Avi Lebo

[RDK]

Avishai Cohen (X2)

Are there two different Avashai Cohens or is he just twice the Jew than the rest?

[BillF]

Don't forget Artie Fishel *

* Gilad Atzmon's alter ego.

[Michael Weiss]

Yo! What am I, chopped liver?

Edited May 27, 2008 by Michael Weiss

[king ubu]

Sammy Davis, Jr.

Doesn't count - as I believe we are looking at ethnic influence.

Hello, Fran,

Interesting comment; and this is an interesting thread. A bit scary, really, IMO, but interesting. Had someone started a thread entitled, "Non-Jewish Jazz Musicians" I'm sure lots of folks would be screaming anti-Semitism instead of contributing to it. But that's what is great about Freedom of Ideas and Speech; or at least in Internet-communication theory.

A lot of "Jews," just to give you some historical perspective, are not "ethnically" influenced, as you seem to think is of such relative importance.

In Central and Eastern Europe, many traders and merchants took on the Jewish faith, so that they could trade with both (collectively) the Christians and the Muslims. In this way, they would not offend either trading-party and could exploit trade to their greatest investment advantage.

Over time, such people became "Jews" but were not of "ethnic" Jewish descent.

So... Just because a fellow by the name of Stan Getz is of Ukrainian-Jewish origins, unless one does extensive Haplogroup X-DNA testing, really, there is no way to determine if he is as "ethnic" as you would like to believe.

What really defines "ethnicity" in regards to Jews?

Most American "Jews" are Ashkenazi Jews who have little consanguineous ties to ancient Israel. In reality, most "converted" to this religious-belief system for their personal advantage. Those with true "ethnic influence," as you like to put it; can range from 1% to about 30% of their bloodline. The majority of their genetics is of European descent with very little "ethnicity" of the Jewish bloodline.

If Sammy chose to become Jewish, then I respect that. Being "Jewish" is beautiful, regardless if you have its "ethnicity" or not.

Jazz is important because it can be played and enjoyed by all peoples in any culture, "ethnicity," or sex in life...

That is why it is the greatest and most diverse music in the world.

Please, do not let "ethnicity" determine who is worthy and who is not worthy.

And, yes, I am to believe that I am a MOT (Jewish descent), of which I am very proud; but I do not let it define who I am nor let it define how to judge other peoples. Sammy, ethnically or not, is part of my family.

Thank you for the opportunity to share my POV.

GLTY.

Is it the best BS first post here?

That was exactly what I asked myself after reading it... but likely the GLTY at the end is a self-declaration as "guilty", a quick moment of light at the end of typing?

[BruceH]

"My son the jazz musician."

[Joe G]

Yo! What am I, chopped liver?

[DTMX]

Al Jolson?

[AllenLowe]

well, I'm Jewish, too, but I've retired from jazz - I'm now a Bubble Gum Rocker -

[JSngry]

well, I'm Jewish, too, but I've retired from jazz - I'm now a Bubble Gum Rocker -

[White Lightning]

Don't forget Artie Fishel *

* Gilad Atzmon's alter ego.

I didn't want to offend Gilad Atzmon by calling him a Jew.

[White Lightning]

Avishai Cohen (X2)

Are there two different Avashai Cohens or is he just twice the Jew than the rest?

There's Avishai the Bass player and Avishai the Trumpet player.