Viva Prog Rock

[Aggie87]

I guess I'm just a troll. What say you Org members?

You're no troll...and I know who I'd rather hang out with any day of the week.

[7/4]

I'm between trips now - I drive evil molecules around for a living now, so computer time is limited. But...

Space rock is a term - I certainly heard it over the years to describe Hawkwind, but I don't think I've heard 'em. I think I'd call Gong, Steve Hillage Space Rock.

Early Steve Hillage is great. Green, Fish Rising...I love those early solo albums & Khan w/Dave Stewart!

[J.A.W.]

Interesting discussion, but I'm afraid it's a bit "post my time". Loved the first two Pink Floyd albums at the time (late 1960s), though, and still do. Didn't listen to the Floyd after Umma Gumma until some thirty years later

By the way, it's "ad nauseam"

[Guest Wallace]

And by the way, it's "ad nauseam"

Yes, I agree with everyone else here - the lp "Ad Nauseam" by Derek & Clive IS a damn funny work. (By the way, I need the barf bag that came with the orig. gimmix cover.)

..........................

Back to Porcupine Tree:

Well I finally finished listening to "Sky Moves Sideways".

I had to do it in three parts since, like I said before, because of equal measure of letdown and sameyness, my attention span cannot take it all in in a single listen.

So here's my take:

First off -I apologize - your correct, there is nothing remotely fusiony about this band. (I had confused with another band of that period.)

First thing that struck me: for a prog lp, the keyboardist is doing basically feck-all on this thing. Although its nowise writ in stone that prog has to be keyboard-based , fact is, it 8-times-out-of-ten IS. Prog is that rare creature where the keysman comes to the fore. (Indeed if prog shares ANYTHING at all with vintage jazz, its that both genres brought the Hammond organ back into vogue.)

So what does the keysplayer do here?

Its straight atmospherics - blank, drawnout chord swathes, lame-o soundtrackish backwashes. Virtually no solos, not much by way of harmonies either.

Its boring soundtrack playing -this sort of thing worked well in a filmscore like Jarre's "Witness" where it is used to accentuate the sparseness and wide-open spaces of the Amish lifestyle. But on a STUDIO lp - well, this sort of schtick has been done to death. "The Wall" is full of it.

You may argue - "Well, it IS SPACErock, so the keys SHOULD be open/spacey." In answer, I can only submit, "Space is also DARK". The Krautrock take on "Kosmiche" music was more than often of a whirling, threatening, chaotic, busy type of void. Some of the best Kraut is jarring/ challenging/threatening.

Im not saying the cd is bad music.

Just that its ....well, there is a Russian saying when describing certain music - "Its like dragging a dead man by the scrotum." In other words, its too tranquil, too much devoid of dynamics.

The first track name alone sums up the vapid /dreamy/substance-less feel of the music here - "Colour of Air".

This goes into the vocals of the track , "I find Im not There". Throughout the lp, the vocalist sings in this SLEEPY , droney tone. (People say Porcupine Tree has a Heavy phase. That's certainly not true about this particular cd.)

The vocal bits are almost ballady - if it wasnt for all the effects. Vocals are VERY later-period Floyd, so you can see why lovers of that Floyd would fall for this thing. (There is also the very Gilmore-ish (and also ubiquitously Van Halen-ish-pig-squeal guitar playing.) As in most pedestrian musics, the vocals carry the main part of the tune. The instruments are mere adjuncts.

When the music gets finally busy on the "Wire the Drum" track its this beat-rave music. (I suppose Rave is pioneering at this early time -the cd is '94, right? But Im not sure - I dont know the history of Rave. All I do know is, Im no fan.

About halfway into the cd you get the instrumental - "Moonloop" I believe it is. This for me is the highlight of the lp. The repetative ,slow bass build-up and the brief guitar end show clearly that the band was influenced by Crimson's "Starless and Bible Black". The mellotron is an instrument tailor-made for these backwashes that the keysman seems so fond of, and on this track it works quite well.

Well, Im not going to go through this cd any further, only to say that it sounds like countless other spacerock bands - to give the band credit,not of the period, but post.

Its a "nice" work.

A floater.

[Guest Wallace]

I will have to revisit "Signify" then.

Local public library has "In Absentia" (and a certain forum rates this their best).

Also I see the library has a copy of "Fear of Blank Planet" (said to be patchy).

[BFrank]

I've still never heard 'Animals' or 'The Wall'.

Check out 'Animals', Bev. I think you'd enjoy it quite a bit actually.

As to Porkupine Tree, truth to tell ,Im only familiar with their first 3 or 4 cds. And those are more towards fusion than prog.

I ASSUME later on they go the usual way and become more AORish or spacey/newage-filler-ish.) On the early cds they ARE an instrumentally-competent band, but (as,for instance, I view the band Ozric Tentacles as well) their output is very SAMEY

I don’t think any of PT’s albums are fusion, new age, or filler-ish.

Perhaps you should listen to Porcupine Tree’s music before pronouncing judgment about them being “samey”.

P-Tree will be here in a couple of weeks. I screwed up and didn't get advanced reserved seating. It's too late for that now. I may still get ticket in Gen Admission and deal with the "floor crowd".

[Aggie87]

P-Tree will be here in a couple of weeks. I screwed up and didn't get advanced reserved seating. It's too late for that now. I may still get ticket in Gen Admission and deal with the "floor crowd".

Alright Buzz! We want a review of the show!

[BFrank]

P-Tree will be here in a couple of weeks. I screwed up and didn't get advanced reserved seating. It's too late for that now. I may still get ticket in Gen Admission and deal with the "floor crowd".

Alright Buzz! We want a review of the show!

Will do! (if I go)

[Quincy]

I'm about > < close to seeing them in St. Louis in August. I'm planning a visit to the folks and if the time frame works this would be a present to myself on my way back. Unfortunately PT is the undercard to Coheed & Cambria, though as I have yet to sample a note perhaps I shouldn't frame that so negatively. I've read that C&C has a 5 album sci-fi concept album arc going on - maybe they're trying for their own Ring? If I read that right my reaction varies between a sort of respect for that level of commitment, to a fear of seeing something so nutty the writers of Spinal Tap couldn't conceive of it. I should check out some samples...

I haven't posted in the Porcupine Tree thread but whatever their styles & labels you want to throw at them I've greatly appreciated the suggestions, though probably the most valuable advice was get the 2 CD deluxe versions and DVD-As where appropriate since I seem to buying (and enjoying) everything.

Edited July 24, 2010 by Quincy

[Guest Wallace]

Further nitpicking:

Just played Porcupine Tree "XM-1" disc (which I didnt even realize I had in the collection.)

The second track is "The Sound Of Muzack".

Very interesting lyrics:

"The music of the future

Will not entertain

It's only meant to repress

And neutralise your brain

Soul gets squeezed out

Edges get blunt

Demographic

Gives what you want"

Eggscrews me, but aren't they describing THEMSELVES here?

Afterall, the composition itself is extremely light, immediately-accessable (but not substancial), hook-laiden. A great IMMEDIATE listen, but ,all in all, lacking depth.

Its what I'd consider a demographics-song. (In a recent interview ,Steve Miller confesses that the reason he made it so big at first was that he had absolutely no difficulties with the controlling bosshogs since the demographics men had completely embraced his "sound" maintaining it is exactly what the majority of listeners can chime in on.)

Later on in the song Porcupine Tree mention "cheap thrills". Which, insofar as I like to perceive, equates to immediacy in accepting the music.

Not that it matters to YOU, but this track is NOT prog (proper).

That's one of the problems - in my little world: with most of these NEW "prog" bands that get so HEAVILY-TOUTED what you get is cds having some prog bits, but they are also larded with mucho straight, conventional catchy poprock.

Many of these bands, like for instance Flowerkings, do this mishmash very well.

I personally adore Flowerkings, but many hardedge-progheads cant take the AOR elements.

Yeah - I know: jonesin' for prog purity.

What could be more pathetic.

[Aggie87]

I'm about > < close to seeing them in St. Louis in August. I'm planning a visit to the folks and if the time frame works this would be a present to myself on my way back. Unfortunately PT is the undercard to Coheed & Cambria, though as I have yet to sample a note perhaps I shouldn't frame that so negatively. I've read that C&C has a 5 album sci-fi concept album arc going on - maybe they're trying for their own Ring? If I read that right my reaction varies between a sort of respect for that level of commitment, to a fear of seeing something so nutty the writers of Spinal Tap couldn't conceive of it. I should check out some samples...

I haven't posted in the Porcupine Tree thread but whatever their styles & labels you want to throw at them I've greatly appreciated the suggestions, though probably the most valuable advice was get the 2 CD deluxe versions and DVD-As where appropriate since I seem to buying (and enjoying) everything.

C&C doesn't interest me too much, but I'd be curious to hear your impressions of the concert if you go as well, Eric. I'm still debating on seeing them in San Antonio in a couple of weeks, having seen them 2x in the past year already now.

[Guest Wallace]

The A-Z of Prog in today's news:

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/features/revival-the-az-of-progressive-rock-2034320.html

Ummm....so then Supertramp, Stranglers and Zappa are prog???

Well, if its in the paper, it must be so.

[7/4]

The A-Z of Prog in today's news:

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/features/revival-the-az-of-progressive-rock-2034320.html

Ummm....so then Supertramp, Stranglers and Zappa are prog???

Well, if its in the paper, it must be so.

Of course Zappa is prog. If you didn't know...you weren't there.

[Jim Alfredson]

Prog is that rare creature where the keysman comes to the fore. (Indeed if prog shares ANYTHING at all with vintage jazz, its that both genres brought the Hammond organ back into vogue.)

I don't really have a horse in this race, but this quote makes no sense. Vintage jazz & prog brought the Hammond organ back into vogue? So it was in vogue before vintage jazz and then Jimmy Smith suddenly brought it back?

No, Jimmy Smith defined jazz on the Hammond, which led to it's inclusion into blues, then R&B, then rock, and then prog. It only went out of vogue in the 80s with the advent of cheap digital synthesizers. Then it came back full force in the 90's with neo-hippie rock bands and young jazzers.

[Guest Wallace]

Your correct.

I should of said both genres brought Hammond towards the forefront.

(Before prog , rock basically looked down on the Hammond.The electric guitar was everything. Psych brought in the organ, but at first that was mainly reedy Vox Continental or Farfisa.)

........

As to Zappa being prog, no. Zappa said asmuch himself.

Im not going to argue this one.

......

Sheesh! Some of you are a captious lot.

(Well I guess Im fond of objection also. Come to think of it.)

Edited July 27, 2010 by Wallace

[7/4]

........

As to Zappa being prog, no. Zappa said asmuch himself.

Im not going to argue this one.

Where do he say that? (not that it really matters.)

[Guest Wallace]

Dont matter is correct.

[7/4]

Dont matter is correct.

Can't back it up with a quote from an interview, eh?

[Jim Alfredson]

I don't think Zappa wanted the prog label (I remember reading that somewhere myself), but I would say a lot of his music certainly qualifies.

[7/4]

I'd say so. I'd describe a lot of Zappa as fusion too.

[Guest Wallace]

Zappa = toilet rock, novelty music, fusion, some-20/30-odd-releases-too-many rock

The universal bullshit that "Freak Out" is one of the first prog lps is also dead incorrect.

[7/4]

Zappa = toilet rock, novelty music, fusion, some-20/30-odd-releases-too-many rock

The universal bullshit that "Freak Out" is one of the first prog lps is also dead incorrect.

You're just picking the exceptions to make a point.

[Guest Wallace]

Exceptions?

I only pinpointed Freak Out so far.

(Still...amazing that you seem to agree with me on Freak Out.)

If one rides with the idea that concept lp somehow approximates prog, then the closest they came to prog was "Absolutely ...wotsit" lp (not that I can tell you the exact concept that unifies this lp) and something like "that Hotels set.

If you take that opener and that closer track off "Burnt Weenie Sandwich", wel maybe....

[7/4]

Exceptions?

I only pinpointed Freak Out so far.

(Still...amazing that you seem to agree with me on Freak Out.)

If one rides with the idea that concept lp somehow approximates prog, then the closest they came to prog was "Absolutely ...wotsit" lp (not that I can tell you the exact concept that unifies this lp) and something like "that Hotels set.

If you take that opener and that closer track off "Burnt Weenie Sandwich", wel maybe....

Studio Tan.

[Shawn]

I think you're wasting your time 7/4, there is only one correct opinion and that's his.

Edited July 27, 2010 by Shawn