Recording Techniques on Stan Kenton Capitols

[cannonball-addict]

I'm wondering why so many of the Kenton recordings from the 50s on Capitol Records sound so terrible sound-quality-wise? The bands were undeniably good. Rosolino, Konitz, Russo, Perkins, Holman, Balthazar, etc.

In contrast to Basie and Ellington and even Herman recordings from the same period, the Kentons just don't stand out in recording quality. Were they recorded in stereo? And if so, why does it always seem like everything was sent to center channel. Surely engineers for such a major record label couldn't have been that bad? It always seems like the Kenton band was recording in a big open auditorium and the brass always tends to dominate. You can almost never distinctively hear the saxophone section or the piano for that matter.

Could it have anything to do with the "third-stream" experimental instrumentation he was known to use (i.e. Cuban Fire Suite)?

Did they just mic the whole band with one or two omni-directionals at the 110 degree angle? Plus a few soloist mics?

If any of the engineers or audiophiles out there could give an explanation to me, I'd really appreciate it. also if there are remasters I'm unaware of, where they captured the essence of each section with close miking or some other techniques, i'd like to know of them.

[SGUD missile]

Some of it had to do with the available technology of the era ( mono and two track tape was just beginning to be in use ) ..some of it had to do with the thickness and overall volume levels of the Kenton Band and the preferred arranging styles that offered little transparency or space. In addition, Stan seemed to favor the "over-echo" approach and again , since the chamber used ,although natural rooms, diidn't have the sophisticated means to "tweak" the echo returns to avoid all the midrange buildup that all that brass produced.

By Contrast, the Basie and Herman bands styles possessed a lot more "space", dynamics, and open-ness in the writing which in turn made for cleaner recordings ..even using comparable gear.

Thats my musician non-technical take on the subject.

BTW: By the time the Contemporary Concepts band came out in the late 50s, both the recording gear and the product significantly sounded better to me ( in retrospect )

( I wish a real pro like Jim Anderson would weigh in on this subject ..)

[neveronfriday]

Have you heard the Kenton 4CD RETROSPECTIVE issued in '92?

Any good?

[jazzbo]

I personally think that the Capitol engineers and equipment of the times was top notch, and the sound . . . was probably how the band sounded?

[jazzbo]

OR how the producers/Kenton wanted the band to sound on recordings?

[jazzbo]

There are a lot of aspects of live music (especially LARGE ENSEMBLE music!) that recordings cannot (and may NEVER) capture!

[JSngry]

What Stan thought he heard:

[JSngry]

FAR OUT!

[JSngry]

...tomorrow, THE WORLD!!!!!

[AllenLowe]

wasn't Capitol using three track in the 1950s?

[DMP]

I read once where Kenton didn't like stereo.

[Guest ariceffron]

WHAT DONT YOU STOP BEING CRAZY AND GO TO GOODWILL AND BUY A 30 DOLLAR SANSUI REVERERATION BOX TO RUN YOUR CD AND LP PLAYERS THRU, AND THEN YOU CAN 'WETTEN' THEM UP A LITTLE BIT, BUT EVEN ON MY 78 PLAYER WHICH HAS NOTHING RUNNING THRU IT KENTON ALWAYS SOUNDS GREAT AND IM TALKING ABOUT CAPITOL RECORDS KENTON

[jim anderson]

Wow,

I'm happy to weigh in.

I grew up with original vinyl of "Road Show", "Wagner", "West Side Story" "Neophonic Orchestra" "Christmas Album" and a few more of Kenton's classics from the time and thought they sounded pretty darn good.

In fact, I still do think they're exceptional recordings.

I haven't bothered to check out the cd releases since I've got the albums.

The original gatefold of Road Show has a shot of the engineers, but they're unidentified.

Val Valentine (one of my teachers) may have engineered some. He did engineer "Only the Lonely" for Sinatra and was on staff at Capitol at the time

JA

Edited February 12, 2005 by jim anderson

[Jazz Kat]

I got a couple Stan Kenton albums. And no they weren't good sound quality. Don't remember the name, but I got one with drummer Nick Ceroli, brown cover.. Tons of reverb. That's what I ordinarily go for. I love that on the BN albums, but it doesn't work for me, for a big band.