Baby Face Willette

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

is it against the rules if i put babyfaces 78 rpm on HOLLYWOOD in my post

[Swinging Swede]

Baby Face Willette (org) + others unknown

c. late 1965

14267 When lights are low (unissued) Cadet

14268 After hours -

14269 Soul elevation -

14270 Get to steppin' -

14271 I got a woman (incomplete) -

I think this session was brought up at the old Verve board, but the board members obviously knew more about it than Mark@Verve. I don't remember if we came to any conclusion whatsoever whether the tapes were lost or stíll existed.

[Clunky]

Up for no other reason than me picking up Stop and Listen and Here 'Tis.

Initial play suggests BFW own date is the better of the two , although neither is a s good as Face to Face . I have the latter on the Conn disc form 1997 and it sounds good enough , perhaps a little harsh when Fred blows- is this aspect better on the RVG ?

[chitownjazz]

Looks like Baby Face's son Steven is on Facebook: Steven J. Willette (he lists Baby Face under Arts and Entertainment). I'm not a Facebooker but if anyone contacts Steven and he's open to having info published here, I'd love to hear confirmation of where/when/how Baby Face died, the name of the Chicago club that he supposedly had a long residency at in the late 1960s, and what the story is on the supposed son listed on Wikipedia, Kevin D. Bailey.

[Dan Gould]

Pete Fallico is a friend which indicates to me that this Willette must be his son or relative of some sort - unless of course Pete friended him only to find out he's not. But I went the direct route, using his publicly displayed email to contact him. I'll post if/when he responds.

[monkboughtlunch]

Baby Face Willette (org) + others unknown

c. late 1965

14267 When lights are low (unissued) Cadet

14268 After hours -

14269 Soul elevation -

14270 Get to steppin' -

14271 I got a woman (incomplete) -

I think this session was brought up at the old Verve board, but the board members obviously knew more about it than Mark@Verve. I don't remember if we came to any conclusion whatsoever whether the tapes were lost or stíll existed.

Anybody know the fate of the unissued 1965 Willette Cadet session? Does the label have the tapes? Or were they discarded, reused or stolen over the years? If the tapes survived, what impact, if any, did the 2008 Universal have on the unreleased Willette material? I recall that a number of Argo / Cadet tapes may have suffered damage in the 2008 Universal fire (if they weren't destroyed outright).

I would love to hear this session. If you email Verve and ask about it, they don't answer. Does anyone think this will ever see the light of day?

Looks like Baby Face's son Steven is on Facebook: Steven J. Willette (he lists Baby Face under Arts and Entertainment). I'm not a Facebooker but if anyone contacts Steven and he's open to having info published here, I'd love to hear confirmation of where/when/how Baby Face died, the name of the Chicago club that he supposedly had a long residency at in the late 1960s, and what the story is on the supposed son listed on Wikipedia, Kevin D. Bailey.

Has there ever been an absolute confirmation of where/when/how Baby Face died?

Edited March 17, 2012 by monkboughtlunch

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

look, ill tell you this. a yea or two ago i had some email contact w/ an individual from chicago. he knew Face personally, and he kept reiterating a point over and over in all his emails. i will now share it: he said that there is absolutely -NO- recorded example, of just how intense, the Babyface live experience was. knew and saw him around around 67-68. he said Face live, was something to behold, aboustely trancendent

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

oh, regarding the unissed cadet (argo?) tape, if it was stolen we'd prob have a better shot at uncovering it than if it remained in the vaults. these labels need FULL DISCLOSURE NOW. its 2012. info on the whereabouts of this tape is not going to affect sales of L.M.F.A.O mp3s. i promise.

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

look ill tell you a little more, this man said he befriended Face in the late 60s, he said by 1970 or so face was real sick, he didnt know what he had but Face was definetly not well. he then reiterated again how live, it was an aboustely nother dimension. NOTHING I MEAN NOTHING YOU HAVE EVER HEARD OR THOUGHT YOU HEARD ON RECORD, matches, what happened at a Baby Face concert. he kept driving this home.

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

once again in regards to the unreleased Cadet tape, this problem isnt some state secret, its a freaking babyface master tape. full disclousure now. somone here must have a contact. its not the Kremlin., its cbs/sony (or whtvr)

Edited March 18, 2012 by chewy

[robertoart]

once again in regards to the unreleased Cadet tape, this problem isnt some state secret, its a freaking babyface master tape. full disclousure now. somone here must have a contact. its not the Kremlin., its cbs/sony (or whtvr)

Thanks for your info and passion Chewy. Your posting has really become so much more direct and clear.

Edited March 18, 2012 by freelancer

[robertoart]

look ill tell you a little more, this man said he befriended Face in the late 60s, he said by 1970 or so face was real sick, he didnt know what he had but Face was definetly not well. he then reiterated again how live, it was an aboustely nother dimension. NOTHING I MEAN NOTHING YOU HAVE EVER HEARD OR THOUGHT YOU HEARD ON RECORD, matches, what happened at a Baby Face concert. he kept driving this home.

This is what Larry Coryell said in his autobiography about Grant Green. He said that George Benson told him this too when Larry was still in Texas.

Do you think Baby Face Willette and Grant Green did any gigs together in New York when they made those albums?

They play so well together, it seems like they had grown up playing with each other.

oh, regarding the unissed cadet (argo?) tape, if it was stolen we'd prob have a better shot at uncovering it than if it remained in the vaults. these labels need FULL DISCLOSURE NOW. its 2012. info on the whereabouts of this tape is not going to affect sales of L.M.F.A.O mp3s. i promise.

I keep wanting to edit your post for spelling mistakes. But the system won't let me.

I think your grammar is very good though.

Edited March 18, 2012 by freelancer

[Dan Gould]

once again in regards to the unreleased Cadet tape, this problem isnt some state secret, its a freaking babyface master tape. full disclousure now. somone here must have a contact. its not the Kremlin., its cbs/sony (or whtvr)

Thanks for your info and passion Chewy. Your posting has really become so much more direct and clear.

If only we still had the member who used to translate Aric's posts. These last few cry out for that treatment.

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

its not that difficult. full disclosure from the labels of contents of vintage stock.

[robertoart]

Can't someone contrive some kind of University research project to get access to, and resolve the info for these sessions. Perhaps even annotate the discographies.

You know, session lost, session cancelled, session intact but trainwreck, or, couldn't find it where it was supposed to be, but it could be somewhere else.

Look in the box marked, 'the psychedelic soul sitar guitar of Howard Roberts' (not that there's anything wrong with that).

Edited March 20, 2012 by freelancer

[monkboughtlunch]

Baby Face Willette (org) + others unknown

c. late 1965

14267 When lights are low (unissued) Cadet

14268 After hours -

14269 Soul elevation -

14270 Get to steppin' -

14271 I got a woman (incomplete) -

I think this session was brought up at the old Verve board, but the board members obviously knew more about it than Mark@Verve. I don't remember if we came to any conclusion whatsoever whether the tapes were lost or stíll existed.

Does Verve / Concord even have a Vault issue / reissue campaign these days? Seems like they have imploded and just reissue a remastered version of the Charlle Brown Christmas soundtrack every couple of years.

[robertoart]

I've given up worrying about it all by now.

Anything this deep archive wise, in the hands of these so called majors, might as well be notated as...

lost... forgotten about...not in the interests of the listening world at large....

[monkboughtlunch]

So how did Willette die and where is the original Fallico article? Was Willette stabbed in prison as someone noted earlier in the thread?

Given that the Japanese have issued Willette's two Argo Lps on CD 15 years ago, is there any chance the Japanese might reissue either album on CD -- but with the unissued 1965 Cadet session appended as bonus tracks? Did the 1965 Cadet session survive the 2008 Universal fire?

Edited August 3, 2014 by monkboughtlunch

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Pete Fallico took all his Doodlin' Lounge articles on organists off a few years ago, saying he was going to incorporate them into a book. However, no book's appeared yet.

I saved a good few of those articles for ease of reference. This is the end of Pete's piece on Baby Face:

About two years ago a record company called me to ask if I knew of Baby Face's next-of-kin. They apparently were holding some of Baby Face's royalty money. Since I wasn't sure about Baby Face's personal life, I began asking the other organists and calling my contacts in Chicago. I must say, I did not find out much at all; even asking folks who I thought would have first-hand knowledge. Ben Dixon felt sure that Baby Face had a wife. Tenor saxophonist, John Stubblefield, claims to be a distant relative of Baby Face Willette and recalls that his mother attended the elder Willette's church. He reported playing with Baby Face during his stay in Chicago from 1966 to 1971 and thought there may have been a son but didn't know much else. It was known that Baby Face had two sisters but everyone I spoke with claimed both had passed as well as the parents. Eddie Buster suggested that there may have been a brother. This was supported by Little Bobby Neely who is supposedly a distant cousin and played horn with both Otis Rush and Buddy Guy. Bobby said Baby Face's brother was named Frank and he died soon after Baby Face passed. Wilbur Campbell said he had lost contact with Baby Face in 1969. I came to the conclusion that if there was next-of-kin, I certainly couldn't find him or her! My frustration has lingered through the years. I know there are several folks who would really like to know something more definitive about the last decade or so in Baby Face Willette's life. All I can hope for is that someone with more knowledge will hear our pleas and come forth. Until such time, I'm going to enjoy my recordings of Baby Face Willette and call his name in every Jazz Organ conversation I find myself in!

Pete Fallico - February 2000

MG

[Late]

Listening to Mo' Rock (Moroccan Village) while typing. This thread is pretty good Tuesday night reading. (Mo' Rock.)

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

not nearly as bad as Kenny Dorham says!!!!!  comeon KD, i know its not you and bird at the royal roost, but its The Face!!! 

 

 

*re: kenny dorhams original scathing downbeat review of MoRoc

[Shrdlu]

I have had the two Blue Note Willette CDs, and the one backing Grant Green, for years, and the mastering is fine on all of the versions I have heard.

Just got "Here 'Tis" (the Donaldson session), with the "new" track, "Blues #4", which is just as good as the originally issued tracks. Tasty stuff. I assume that that extra track was omitted for lack of space.

[danasgoodstuff]

On 1/3/2019 at 10:11 AM, Shrdlu said:

I have had the two Blue Note Willette CDs, and the one backing Grant Green, for years, and the mastering is fine on all of the versions I have heard.

Just got "Here 'Tis" (the Donaldson session), with the "new" track, "Blues #4", which is just as good as the originally issued tracks. Tasty stuff. I assume that that extra track was omitted for lack of space.

Where'd you get the bonus track version of Her 'Tis and how much, if you don't mind me asking?

[Dan Gould]

9 hours ago, danasgoodstuff said:

Where'd you get the bonus track version of Her 'Tis and how much, if you don't mind me asking?

SHM Series. Sold out now per CDJapan. I was confused because the discography lists no such tune on the session, only an unnamed blues that was 'rejected'. Didn't think that Michael would issue that which was rejected so I was guessing the discography is out of date?

[Kevin Bresnahan]

1 hour ago, Dan Gould said:

SHM Series. Sold out now per CDJapan. I was confused because the discography lists no such tune on the session, only an unnamed blues that was 'rejected'. Didn't think that Michael would issue that which was rejected so I was guessing the discography is out of date?

Quite a few of the extra tracks in the SHM reissue series don't appear in Cuscuna's discography. It makes you wonder if they've uncovered tapes through the years. Steve Hoffman has often claimed that there are several "master tapes" for many of these Blue Note dates. He says that there is some detective work needed on some of them. Then there's the story that someone went through the tapes in the 70's, copied them with Dolby A, and then through out the original or marked it "Do Not Use" or in some cases, chucked them.