Baby Face Willette

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

clementine u are comletely out of control

That's why I enjoy him.

That's also why I enjoy you.

The Clem "persona" is "smarter than you".

The Chewy "persona" is "dumber than you".

Hard to imagine both of you in the same world, but then I say "yup".

Are they the same?

MG

[Soulstation1]

i'll warn steven not to answer the phone this weekend

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

u better not screw this up soulstation- we are gonna make baby face history

[clifford_thornton]

Why don't you and soulstation just make babies - THAT would be history!

[sheldonm]

Why don't you and soulstation just make babies - THAT would be history!

[mjzee]

Just noticed that Mo-Roc is available from iTunes for $7.92.

[Niko]

http://cgi.ebay.com/THE-BABY-FACE-WILLETTE...1QQcmdZViewItem

stumbled across this ebay item and as i hadn't seen the cover before... a single caled dad's theme...

[WorldB3]

'Face to Face' is indeed a great one.

No love so far for 'Stop and Listen' though?

I actually enjoy that one better than Face to Face. Maybe because it was one of the first records I bought with Grant Green on it when I was becoming obsessed with him. Both are excellent and the new RVG of Face to Face sounds great.

[AllenLowe]

good recording -

[Dan Gould]

http://cgi.ebay.com/THE-BABY-FACE-WILLETTE...1QQcmdZViewItem

stumbled across this ebay item and as i hadn't seen the cover before... a single caled dad's theme...

I thought there was a Chess recording that wasn't issued at the time, along with a couple of Vee Jay 45s that I have or have received burns of ... or now that I think about it, didn't Chess end up owning the Argo/Cadet catalog? Because I notice that "Dad's Theme" was on his Mo' Rock album and "Behind the 8 Ball" was the title track of the other album. So I'm guessing they took two tunes from different albums and put them out as a single.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

http://cgi.ebay.com/THE-BABY-FACE-WILLETTE...1QQcmdZViewItem

stumbled across this ebay item and as i hadn't seen the cover before... a single caled dad's theme...

I thought there was a Chess recording that wasn't issued at the time, along with a couple of Vee Jay 45s that I have or have received burns of ... or now that I think about it, didn't Chess end up owning the Argo/Cadet catalog? Because I notice that "Dad's Theme" was on his Mo' Rock album and "Behind the 8 Ball" was the title track of the other album. So I'm guessing they took two tunes from different albums and put them out as a single.

Argo was always a Chess-owned label.

This 45 is on the Chess International label. No indication of where it was manufactured, but I would guess not the USA; probably Europe. It also has a picture sleeve. I think picture sleeves became popular in France earlier than in Britain. But only for the most popular artists. It would have been madness for a Willette 45 to have a picture sleeve in the sixties in Britain. But in France, Argo was issued by Barclay - my LP of "Mo rock" is on Barclay.

By the look of the label, I'd guess it was a mid-seventies reissue, perhaps even as late as the All-platinum days.

But that prompts a really pertinent question:

Where (and precisely when) was there a market for this stuff in that particular period? The Acid Jazz thing didn't get going (and it was in Britain, where this wasn't issued) until the early eighties. Prior to that, the world was awash with disco and Willette's music didn't fit.

Ah, but maybe it did. Maybe this really was a US made disc, made by All-Platinum, because some DJ was using those LP tracks for scratching. Timescale would fit. But were there Bronx DJs using this type of material for scratching in those days?

MG

[sidewinder]

That's not the Arhoolie symbol on the sleeve and label is it? - in which case it could be a California Arhoolie label issue of the Chess recording.

'AR 45-202' numbering seems to back this up. My guess would be late 60s/early 70s vintage.

Edited June 12, 2008 by sidewinder

[paul secor]

That's not the Arhoolie symbol on the sleeve and label is it? - in which case it could be a California Arhoolie label issue of the Chess recording.

'AR 45-202' numbering seems to back this up. My guess would be late 60s/early 70s vintage.

As far as I know, Arhoolie never reissued any Chess recordings. Arhoolie was a fairly low budget, small time - at least in terms of sales, not quality of music - in the late 60's & early 70's. Plus, if Chris Strachwitz could afford to lease any Chess material for reissue at that time, it would probably have been unissued blues recordings in the Chess archives, not already released Baby Face Willette recordings.

I could be wrong, but I doubt it.

[Peter A]

http://cgi.ebay.com/THE-BABY-FACE-WILLETTE...1QQcmdZViewItem

stumbled across this ebay item and as i hadn't seen the cover before... a single caled dad's theme...

I thought there was a Chess recording that wasn't issued at the time, along with a couple of Vee Jay 45s that I have or have received burns of ... or now that I think about it, didn't Chess end up owning the Argo/Cadet catalog? Because I notice that "Dad's Theme" was on his Mo' Rock album and "Behind the 8 Ball" was the title track of the other album. So I'm guessing they took two tunes from different albums and put them out as a single.

Argo was always a Chess-owned label.

This 45 is on the Chess International label. No indication of where it was manufactured, but I would guess not the USA; probably Europe. It also has a picture sleeve. I think picture sleeves became popular in France earlier than in Britain. But only for the most popular artists. It would have been madness for a Willette 45 to have a picture sleeve in the sixties in Britain. But in France, Argo was issued by Barclay - my LP of "Mo rock" is on Barclay.

By the look of the label, I'd guess it was a mid-seventies reissue, perhaps even as late as the All-platinum days.

But that prompts a really pertinent question:

Where (and precisely when) was there a market for this stuff in that particular period? The Acid Jazz thing didn't get going (and it was in Britain, where this wasn't issued) until the early eighties. Prior to that, the world was awash with disco and Willette's music didn't fit.

Ah, but maybe it did. Maybe this really was a US made disc, made by All-Platinum, because some DJ was using those LP tracks for scratching. Timescale would fit. But were there Bronx DJs using this type of material for scratching in those days?

MG

The single was issued by Artone Records, a Dutch company which (re)issued records on the Chess label in the Netherlands from '56 - '69 (but also Verve and Prestige (Funckler)). Judging the label, the single was probably released around '65.

I have never seen this single before, although I have to confess I never look at singles in recordshops or -fairs.

MG, perhaps not so strange it was released (perhaps for jukeboxes etc) because this kind of instrumental music was quite popular at that time.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

http://cgi.ebay.com/THE-BABY-FACE-WILLETTE...1QQcmdZViewItem

stumbled across this ebay item and as i hadn't seen the cover before... a single caled dad's theme...

I thought there was a Chess recording that wasn't issued at the time, along with a couple of Vee Jay 45s that I have or have received burns of ... or now that I think about it, didn't Chess end up owning the Argo/Cadet catalog? Because I notice that "Dad's Theme" was on his Mo' Rock album and "Behind the 8 Ball" was the title track of the other album. So I'm guessing they took two tunes from different albums and put them out as a single.

Argo was always a Chess-owned label.

This 45 is on the Chess International label. No indication of where it was manufactured, but I would guess not the USA; probably Europe. It also has a picture sleeve. I think picture sleeves became popular in France earlier than in Britain. But only for the most popular artists. It would have been madness for a Willette 45 to have a picture sleeve in the sixties in Britain. But in France, Argo was issued by Barclay - my LP of "Mo rock" is on Barclay.

By the look of the label, I'd guess it was a mid-seventies reissue, perhaps even as late as the All-platinum days.

But that prompts a really pertinent question:

Where (and precisely when) was there a market for this stuff in that particular period? The Acid Jazz thing didn't get going (and it was in Britain, where this wasn't issued) until the early eighties. Prior to that, the world was awash with disco and Willette's music didn't fit.

Ah, but maybe it did. Maybe this really was a US made disc, made by All-Platinum, because some DJ was using those LP tracks for scratching. Timescale would fit. But were there Bronx DJs using this type of material for scratching in those days?

MG

The single was issued by Artone Records, a Dutch company which (re)issued records on the Chess label in the Netherlands from '56 - '69 (but also Verve and Prestige (Funckler)). Judging the label, the single was probably released around '65.

I have never seen this single before, although I have to confess I never look at singles in recordshops or -fairs.

MG, perhaps not so strange it was released (perhaps for jukeboxes etc) because this kind of instrumental music was quite popular at that time.

Very interesting, Peter. Thanks.

MG

[AndrewHill]

Wow, what a cool thread. Its just loaded with tons of info.

Don't own any Willette, but it looks like I'm going to have to change that, especially with the RVG's.

[Niko]

Wow, what a cool thread. Its just loaded with tons of info.

Don't own any Willette, but it looks like I'm going to have to change that, especially with the RVG's.

you won't regret it, after reading this thread i got face to face, played whatever lola wants and had to play it several times in a row; still happens whenever i put in the cd (also got here 'tis recently and that's another great record....)

[Soul Stream]

Here's a story that hasn't been mentioned. Opal Nations, whose work in reissuing Specialty's Gospel catalogue for Fantasy is well known, was a DJ in Memphis in the late '60s. (He was also from my home town, and wrote about this to my mate.) He interviewed Baby Face for his radio programme and Willette apparently told him that Chess wouldn't let him record, although he had a contract with them.

WOW MG!!! Up for air...never saw this post. Where did you get this information?

[Soul Stream]

Yeah...I remember a Downbeat review of an organ group that summarized organ groups as "urban R&B".

I know several older organ group veterans who are largely dismissive of many organists as too loud and overbearing...and dismissive of players who seldom venture beyond 3 or 4 chords. From what I've heard of Baby Face he pretty much DID stick to 3 or change tunes. That's why a player like Larry Young is pretty much universally admired and more respected. He could play changes.

I'm not saying this to put down R&B or Baby Face Willette. I Love R&B and Baby Face is cool with me in small doses.

This is just not true. Listen to Baby Face on They Can't Take That Away From Me or Misty or any other of the standards he approached. He was an all around bad mf. Larry Young isn't better than Face... just "as good." That's my honest beleif. We all need to get over the McCoy Tyner-isms of life and move on to other, more pressing issues like truth and beauty.

Edited September 1, 2008 by Soul Stream

[Soul Stream]

Saturday night I played an organ trio gig backing up Hubert Sumlin, Howlin' Wolf's longtime guitarist. Since Hubert is a Southside Chicago guy, I asked him about Baby Face. Man, his eyes lit up and he just was in disbelief..."Baby Face Willette?!" He went on to add that he was friends with him and talked about going to see him play and what a bad organist he was. Also profusely talked about what a nice cat he was. Pretty cool.

[paul secor]

Saturday night I played an organ trio gig backing up Hubert Sumlin, Howlin' Wolf's longtime guitarist. Since Hubert is a Southside Chicago guy, I asked him about Baby Face. Man, his eyes lit up and he just was in disbelief..."Baby Face Willette?!" He went on to add that he was friends with him and talked about going to see him play and what a bad organist he was. Also profusely talked about what a nice cat he was. Pretty cool.

Nice anecdote. Cool that Hubert Sumlin was a fan and friend of Baby Face Willette. I have the feeling that musicians are often more admiring and appreciative of musicians of other genres than fans are.

How does Mr. Sumlin's health seem to be? I haven't heard him live for over 15 years, but I recently saw a video from a year or so ago, and he didn't appear to be all that well - tho his playing was fine. Hope he's ok.

[Soul Stream]

Saturday night I played an organ trio gig backing up Hubert Sumlin, Howlin' Wolf's longtime guitarist. Since Hubert is a Southside Chicago guy, I asked him about Baby Face. Man, his eyes lit up and he just was in disbelief..."Baby Face Willette?!" He went on to add that he was friends with him and talked about going to see him play and what a bad organist he was. Also profusely talked about what a nice cat he was. Pretty cool.

Nice anecdote. Cool that Hubert Sumlin was a fan and friend of Baby Face Willette. I have the feeling that musicians are often more admiring and appreciative of musicians of other genres than fans are.

How does Mr. Sumlin's health seem to be? I haven't heard him live for over 15 years, but I recently saw a video from a year or so ago, and he didn't appear to be all that well - tho his playing was fine. Hope he's ok.

His health wasn't all that great a few years ago. He had lung cancer and they took out one lung. That said, he now seems to be 100%. I don't think I've ever heard him play so great as he did Saturday night, and I've seen him several times over the last 10 or 15 years. His tone and touch were unbelievable.... We did Sittin On Top Of The World with just organ, drums & guitar and his singing and playing gave me goose bumps in the middle of it.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Here's a story that hasn't been mentioned. Opal Nations, whose work in reissuing Specialty's Gospel catalogue for Fantasy is well known, was a DJ in Memphis in the late '60s. (He was also from my home town, and wrote about this to my mate.) He interviewed Baby Face for his radio programme and Willette apparently told him that Chess wouldn't let him record, although he had a contract with them.

WOW MG!!! Up for air...never saw this post. Where did you get this information?

Opal Nations comes from my home town, Brighton and, back in the sixties, wrote this in a letter to my best mate, who was at achool with him. He showed me the letter, I recall.

MG

[monkboughtlunch]

Hi - can anyone post the date and songs recorded for the unissued 1965 Willette Verve session.

This info used to be on Pete's site, but now I can't find it. I think this may have been published in the Ruppli book in the 80s...

Thanks!

[Soul Stream]

Yeah, I'd love to hear about this Verve date too!!!!