Are there any brothers up in here?

[cannonball-addict]

Not that it matters that much but jazz (especially the greazy kind that b-3er and organissimo play) was originally black music and from the "show us your picture" thread a while back, it seemed to me that we are all white males and females and many of us talk about jazz with all this authority and whatnot. But we only the fortunate inheritors and preservers of this great music.

Are there any African-Americans who post here? It would nice if some sort of black opinion was voiced here. At least it would make sense....

[Christiern]

If you have to pose that question, what difference is it going to make?

[Soul Stream]

Yeah, we're white so we really don't matter.

I've been playing blues, jazz and r&b my whole life. However, I still get people telling me I'd be better off playing country since that's my 'heritage.' Well, you know what, I'm Irish (I guess) so I should really play Celtic music. Yes, let's all play what we are. Asians play asian music, blacks play black music, and whites play white music. Oh yeah, but what about Bix and Stan Getz and Chet and Lennie and Bill Evans...they should play other music because jazz is for blacks only.

And you should only listen to your country of origin's music. So no jazz for white people too. It's not your heritage.

Edited January 27, 2005 by Soul Stream

[Guest akanalog]

being jewish i do not like to consider myself white. at least to me, being jewish is an ethnicity. well to my father as well, who taught me to think that way.

not that that would make jazz any more my music than white folks.

i think your post points to, well, not the trouble, but the state of jazz today

there are probably a zillion reasons for it.

[cannonball-addict]

Yeah, we're white so we really don't matter.

I've been playing blues, jazz and r&b my whole life. However, I still get people telling me I'd be better off playing country since that's my 'heritage.' Well, you know what, I'm Irish (I guess) so I should really play Celtic music. Yes, let's all play what we are. Asians play asian music, blacks play black music, and whites play white music. Oh yeah, but what about Bix and Stan Getz and Chet and Lennie and Bill Evans...they should play other music because jazz is for blacks only.

And you should only listen to your country of origin's music. So no jazz for white people too. It's not your heritage.

I didn't say that jazz is for blacks only. All I said is it is a musical form born out of their struggle. Ain't nobody gonna tell me that no white boy thought up bebop. Or organ jazz. Sure there were white jazz guys along the way. But I'd like to know that the black people who still enjoy jazz today are getting a chance to know about this web forum and take part!

[Soul Stream]

Yeah, we're white so we really don't matter.

I've been playing blues, jazz and r&b my whole life.  However, I still get people telling me I'd be better off playing country since that's my 'heritage.'  Well, you know what, I'm Irish (I guess) so I should really play Celtic music.  Yes, let's all play what we are.  Asians play asian music, blacks play black music, and whites play white music.  Oh yeah, but what about Bix and Stan Getz and Chet and Lennie and Bill Evans...they should play other music because jazz is for blacks only.

And you should only listen to your country of origin's music.  So no jazz for white people too.  It's not your heritage.

I didn't say that jazz is for blacks only. All I said is it is a musical form born out of their struggle. Ain't nobody gonna tell me that no white boy thought up bebop. Or organ jazz. Sure there were white jazz guys along the way. But I'd like to know that the black people who still enjoy jazz today are getting a chance to know about this web forum and take part!

I'm struggling just as much as any black guy that picks up the instrument. What's the point? Like I've always said, I picked the one career where being white works against you.

Edited January 27, 2005 by Soul Stream

[Guest akanalog]

i see what the original poster is saying.

the roots of jazz in america are in the blues. and white folk did not have the blues originally. so it is sort of a gross appropriation of someone elses protest music or form of expression.

however, these days i think american jazz is a part of american culture and we are all americans i guess so it is equally everyones art form at this point and eveyone is entitled to share in it, enjoy it and perform it.

and at this stage, i think jazz should be thankful for whomever, race or whatever, who picks up the torch to carry this form of music into the next century. start saying only certain people deserve jazz music and there wont be jazz music left.

(this doesn't mean i will listen to or respect ethan iverson, chris cheek, joe lovano or seamus blake however....)

[Soul Stream]

this whole thread is a drag to me. i've said my little say and now i'll move on to other things.

[Daniel Andresen]

On the outside I'm white, but on the inside I'm darker than a black hole.

[J.A.W.]

...but on the inside I'm darker than a black hole.

What about the gravity? Doesn't it bother you?

[tonym]

just a bunch a white guys....?

[CJ Shearn]

I'm biracial.

[connoisseur series500]

Hey Cannonball:

Make sure you never discuss Shakespeare, or the Bible, or War and Peace, or try to understand the Mona Lisa.

They were done by white folks; and only white folks can really understand them.

But seriously...

The whole point about art of this kind is that it transcends the immediate, the topical, the parochial, and the racial. It can appeal to many in different ways.

It's open to all and everyone, brother!

[BbM7]

Unlike my parents, I'm not white.

[AllenLowe]

"the roots of jazz in america are in the blues" - unproveable and basically untrue - though I agreee that jazz and all of American pop music comes from the musical habits of African Americans - but there's a lot more to it than the blues -

Edited January 27, 2005 by AllenLowe

[jazzmessenger]

O.K. I am neither white or black. When I started listening to jazz 7 or 8 years ago, I always thought jazz is black music. So, I almost never bought CDs or saw concerts featuring white musicians. However, my view has changed over the years. The origin of the music may be from black culture, but I now believe that jazz today is for everyone.

[Guest Chaney]

A few months back I saw Andrew Hill at the Albright-Knox Art Gallery in Buffalo. Blacks in attendance, not counting Hill and band? Less than ten.

If you're asking whay more blacks don't hang out on this board, I haven't a clue. Maybe they have better things to do with their time. A better question might be: why so few balcks in attendance at the Hill concert. Was it the venue? A hoity-toity art gallery? The white man's province? (Tongue partially in cheek.)

Face it: if jazz had to depend on only the enthusiasm and financial support of Americans of African descent, it would now be dead -- as opposed to simply moribund, forever, it seems, an ICU patient. If only a small percentage of young blacks now listening to rap would embrace jazz... Pipe dream.

Anyway, at this point in time, jazz belongs to the world.

Edited January 27, 2005 by Chaney

[Dan Gould]

Not that it matters that much but jazz (especially the greazy kind that b-3er and organissimo play) was originally black music and from the "show us your picture" thread a while back, it seemed to me that we are all white males and females and many of us talk about jazz with all this authority and whatnot. But we only the fortunate inheritors and preservers of this great music.

Are there any African-Americans who post here? It would nice if some sort of black opinion was voiced here. At least it would make sense....

The problem with your attitude, Matt, is that it implies that if there were black members expressing their opinions, those opinions are somehow more valid and correct, simply because they're expressed by a black person.

Its utterly bogus, and I would hope that deep down you know it is.

What would happen if a black guy showed up here to start telling us that Kenny G isn't a pentatonic fairy fucker but is in fact a great jazz musician? Are we all supposed to revise our opinion of the Gee Whiz? You yourself say that "black opinion ... at least it would make sense."

[AllenLowe]

just for some historical perspective - in my opinion the further jazz has moved from it's folk roots, the less justified are we in calling in black music. It is not racially or ethnically specific. There's a great passage by Ralph Ellison in which he points out that the music is transmitted culturally, not genetically. Of course African Americans had some advantage intially in the development of the music, but mass distribution has largely taken care of that. Still, we musn't lose sight of the fact (and I'm not saying that we have, here ) that virutally all of the special quality of American vernacular music comes from the contributions of African Americans, at least initially. And I would add that I consider the African American cultural heritage part of my own heritage, as it is very specifically American.

[JSngry]

Are there any brothers up in here?

The specific answer is "yes".

[couw]

Are there any brothers up in here?

The specific answer is "yes".

my specific question is "up where?"

[JSngry]

Up in here.

Idiomatic English.

[Rooster_Ties]

Is it wrong to hope that there were some Brothers (and even some Sisters) among us on the board?? That's a serious question.

After all, isn't diversity a good thing??

Maybe it's time to bump this thread up again...

Link: Race and Racial Interaction, in America and beyond, How to foster more/better communication?

Edited January 27, 2005 by Rooster_Ties

[Man with the Golden Arm]

But we only the fortunate inheritors and preservers of this great music.

and lest we not forget ebonics.

[couw]

Up in here.

Idiomatic English.

ah, I see. For a moment I thought this after hours club was up on top of the twentieth floor. I bet, it is even possible to make it into something like "what's going down up in here..." which would be synonymous to "what's up down here..."

right? the mind boggles.