Name some Blue Note cds you find overrated

[king ubu]

which is Clark's first quintet date - not "cool struttin'" I hope?!

No - it's "Dial 'S' for Sonny" I was talking about. Somehow it doesn't jell ... it may sound heretic, but to me the top Sonny Clark album is the trio date on Time Records!

Ah, I see... but that one's a sextet, with Fuller on trombone in addition to Mobley and Farmer (and Ware, Hayes). I would have been quite amazed to see "Cool Struttin'" in this thread (well, maybe it's been mentioned above, I didn't re-read it all).

The Time trio is the last Clark I got (I still miss the Uptown though), and hm, it's fine, but the BN "Sonny Clark Trio" is likely my top Clark, with Chambers/Philly Joe doing a terrific job. The "Standards" disc on the other hand never did much for me.

As for Lee Morgan... I love some of his albums (including "Rumproller", which is one of the typical "Sidewinder" re-trials), but while I have all or most, I'm not sure I can even tell them all apart... "Sidewinder" I love, though (also "Search for the New Land", but that's likely his most atypical album anyway, and then "The Procrastinator"!)

[rdavenport]

- The Sidewinder: most of these dates with a boogaloo tune sound a little too much like they were after a hit;

Yes, but that's only one out of five or six marvelous tracks! Rightly regarded as a classic, IMHO.

Bill - I should perhaps explain myself. The Sidewinder was one of my first jazz CDs, and I played it to DEATH. Consequently now, I can't listen to it any more.

[Dan Gould]

Funny but I am far more inclined to listen to any Jimmy Smith BN record with horns ahead of the straight trio recordings, and wouldn't overrate any of them. I definitely agree on the Movin' On disc and the Fats Waller. Nothing special. Glad I heard the Waller one long ago and didn't have any need to revisit it when it was reissued this year.

[BillF]

- The Sidewinder: most of these dates with a boogaloo tune sound a little too much like they were after a hit;

Yes, but that's only one out of five or six marvelous tracks! Rightly regarded as a classic, IMHO.

Bill - I should perhaps explain myself. The Sidewinder was one of my first jazz CDs, and I played it to DEATH. Consequently now, I can't listen to it any more.

Yes, that does happen with endless playings. Another of your items, Maiden Voyage, has suffered that fate with me, as I bought it (on vinyl, of course) in the mid-sixties and that "sound of surprise" has quite gone

[BruceH]

which is Clark's first quintet date - not "cool struttin'" I hope?!

No - it's "Dial 'S' for Sonny" I was talking about. Somehow it doesn't jell ... it may sound heretic, but to me the top Sonny Clark album is the trio date on Time Records!

I rather agree about Dial 'S'---despite a stellar line-up electricity refuses to flow and it remains perhaps his most earthbound session as a leader.

[sjarrell]

Funny but I am far more inclined to listen to any Jimmy Smith BN record with horns ahead of the straight trio recordings, and wouldn't overrate any of them. I definitely agree on the Movin' On disc and the Fats Waller. Nothing special. Glad I heard the Waller one long ago and didn't have any need to revisit it when it was reissued this year.

All my JOS discs were bought for the sidemen: Mogie, Brooks, Mobley, LD, ZT, IQ, Byrd...

[AllenLowe]

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[rdavenport]

I've been listening to Clifford Jordan/John Gilmore's "Blowing In From Chicago" today - for the first time in many years. I bought this when it came out as a Conn in 1994 and it didn't do anything for me. Other than now being able to tell the two tenors apart (paid some listening dues over the years), it still rather bored me. Jordan is OK here (I much prefer "Spellbound" however) but Gilmore is unremarkable IMO.

[BillF]

I've been listening to Clifford Jordan/John Gilmore's "Blowing In From Chicago" today - for the first time in many years. I bought this when it came out as a Conn in 1994 and it didn't do anything for me. Other than now being able to tell the two tenors apart (paid some listening dues over the years), it still rather bored me. Jordan is OK here (I much prefer "Spellbound" however) but Gilmore is unremarkable IMO.

I've never heard that one, Richard, but I was surprised to see it on sale last year as a new 12" LP at Fopp, just off Market Street, which I'm sure you know.

[Van Basten II]

Never cared much for the Don Wilkerson sessions, that's about it for me so far.

[RDK]

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Doesn't it first have to be considered "great" or at least "good" by someone for it to even be overrated?

[michel1969]

Bennie Green "Walkin and Talkin"

Sonny Red "Out of the Blue"

Jackie Mclean "Bluesnik"

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

the sidewinder is not overrated: the melodies lee wrote for that are unlike any other record date he ever created. the whole album. its like a hard bop concept album man. i dunno what it is but the flow of that album surpasses even other well programmed lee albums

[rdavenport]

I've been listening to Clifford Jordan/John Gilmore's "Blowing In From Chicago" today - for the first time in many years. I bought this when it came out as a Conn in 1994 and it didn't do anything for me. Other than now being able to tell the two tenors apart (paid some listening dues over the years), it still rather bored me. Jordan is OK here (I much prefer "Spellbound" however) but Gilmore is unremarkable IMO.

I've never heard that one, Richard, but I was surprised to see it on sale last year as a new 12" LP at Fopp, just off Market Street, which I'm sure you know.

I don't think you've missed anything Bill. From 1957, it's a nice line-up - rhythm section of Horace Silver, Curly Russell and Blakey, but it seems uninspired. I have to go into Manchester for work next week (not been for about 2 years) so I'll have a look in Fopp and Vinyl Exchange.

[JSngry]

the sidewinder is not overrated: the melodies lee wrote for that are unlike any other record date he ever created. the whole album. its like a hard bop concept album man. i dunno what it is but the flow of that album surpasses even other well programmed lee albums

Good paoint, Mr. Wy. Programming is a woefully under-commented on aspect of BN albums, I think.

[BillF]

I've been listening to Clifford Jordan/John Gilmore's "Blowing In From Chicago" today - for the first time in many years. I bought this when it came out as a Conn in 1994 and it didn't do anything for me. Other than now being able to tell the two tenors apart (paid some listening dues over the years), it still rather bored me. Jordan is OK here (I much prefer "Spellbound" however) but Gilmore is unremarkable IMO.

I've never heard that one, Richard, but I was surprised to see it on sale last year as a new 12" LP at Fopp, just off Market Street, which I'm sure you know.

I don't think you've missed anything Bill. From 1957, it's a nice line-up - rhythm section of Horace Silver, Curly Russell and Blakey, but it seems uninspired. I have to go into Manchester for work next week (not been for about 2 years) so I'll have a look in Fopp and Vinyl Exchange.

Surprised to hear that you haven't been into Manchester for two years, Richard, as you name Manchester as your location. Which part of Greater Manchester do you live in? (I'm in Didsbury).

[BillF]

the sidewinder is not overrated: the melodies lee wrote for that are unlike any other record date he ever created. the whole album. its like a hard bop concept album man. i dunno what it is but the flow of that album surpasses even other well programmed lee albums

Pleased to see you coming to the rescue of The Sidewinder. Whatever else we think of them, Cook and Morton include it in their core collection of 200 jazz discs in their tome which reviews countless thousands.

[rdavenport]

I've been listening to Clifford Jordan/John Gilmore's "Blowing In From Chicago" today - for the first time in many years. I bought this when it came out as a Conn in 1994 and it didn't do anything for me. Other than now being able to tell the two tenors apart (paid some listening dues over the years), it still rather bored me. Jordan is OK here (I much prefer "Spellbound" however) but Gilmore is unremarkable IMO.

I've never heard that one, Richard, but I was surprised to see it on sale last year as a new 12" LP at Fopp, just off Market Street, which I'm sure you know.

I don't think you've missed anything Bill. From 1957, it's a nice line-up - rhythm section of Horace Silver, Curly Russell and Blakey, but it seems uninspired. I have to go into Manchester for work next week (not been for about 2 years) so I'll have a look in Fopp and Vinyl Exchange.

Surprised to hear that you haven't been into Manchester for two years, Richard, as you name Manchester as your location. Which part of Greater Manchester do you live in? (I'm in Didsbury).

Not so far from you Bill, in Stockport. I say Manchester because no-one outside the North West has heard of Stockport! Also, my family is from Wythenshawe, so we do have a Mancunian heritage.

Having children put paid to trips into Manchester - like mobilising an army. I don't get time to go alone (and let's face it, who wants to browse jazz record shops in the company of stressed spouse/whining kids?). I used to go regularly as a single man, when Decoy was still open.

Edited September 28, 2008 by rdavenport

[mikeweil]

The Time trio is the last Clark I got (I still miss the Uptown though), and hm, it's fine, but the BN "Sonny Clark Trio" is likely my top Clark, with Chambers/Philly Joe doing a terrific job. The "Standards" disc on the other hand never did much for me.

Clark doing standards doesn't thrill me - I keep the Blue Note trios, but I like other pianists better with that kind of repertoire. The material on the "Standards" disc was originally issued on 45's and meant to capitlize on Red Garland's juke box hits, but failed - not Clark's cup of tea, methinks. That's why I rank that Time session so high - he plays his own stuff, and without horns he himself is so much more inside the music than when the horns play the melodies.

"Cool Struttin" is a cool disc - I even like Jackie Mac on that one!

But my Sonny Clark Blue Note favorite is the originally unissued session with Kenny Burrell and Clifford Jordan.

Edited September 28, 2008 by mikeweil

[AndrewHill]

"Cool Struttin" is a cool disc - I even like Jackie Mac on that one!

McLean was one of the most creative and exciting sidemen during the Blue Note era; he turned ordinary affairs into some extraordinary!

[BillF]

I've been listening to Clifford Jordan/John Gilmore's "Blowing In From Chicago" today - for the first time in many years. I bought this when it came out as a Conn in 1994 and it didn't do anything for me. Other than now being able to tell the two tenors apart (paid some listening dues over the years), it still rather bored me. Jordan is OK here (I much prefer "Spellbound" however) but Gilmore is unremarkable IMO.

I've never heard that one, Richard, but I was surprised to see it on sale last year as a new 12" LP at Fopp, just off Market Street, which I'm sure you know.

I don't think you've missed anything Bill. From 1957, it's a nice line-up - rhythm section of Horace Silver, Curly Russell and Blakey, but it seems uninspired. I have to go into Manchester for work next week (not been for about 2 years) so I'll have a look in Fopp and Vinyl Exchange.

Surprised to hear that you haven't been into Manchester for two years, Richard, as you name Manchester as your location. Which part of Greater Manchester do you live in? (I'm in Didsbury).

Not so far from you Bill, in Stockport. I say Manchester because no-one outside the North West has heard of Stockport! Also, my family is from Wythenshawe, so we do have a Mancunian heritage.

Having children put paid to trips into Manchester - like mobilising an army. I don't get time to go alone (and let's face it, who wants to browse jazz record shops in the company of stressed spouse/whining kids?). I used to go regularly as a single man, when Decoy was still open.

Great! We're almost neighbours! I might have guessed you were from Stockport with that surname! And such jazz connections, not only with Bix! I think I've already posted how I heard Shorty Rogers in the eighties at the Davenport Theatre, Stockport, leading the National Youth Jazz Orchestra into a new composition, which he called "Davenport"!

[Clunky]

Bennie Green "Walkin and Talkin"

Sonny Red "Out of the Blue"

Jackie Mclean "Bluesnik"

wow to all three of these , especially Bluesnik which is a favourite !!!!

[medjuck]

One of the few cds I've traded after listening to it was a Lou Donaldson. I can't remember which one. I really like his playing as a sideman with Blakey and Brownie but just don't get him in his his funk mode.

[clifford_thornton]

I think the thing with Ike Quebec is the tone rather than the programming. I mean, some of those records are pretty lackluster but his sound is a bitch and a half.

I'm a pretty big fan of Blowing In from Chicago - to me a quintessential hardbop blowing date - but YMMV.

Like others here, I'd also rather hear Sonny Clark play his own tunes.

[BruceH]

Chalk me up as a big fan of Blowing In From Chicago also. The worst I'd say about it is that it's certainly not groundbreaking. But it isn't meant to be; just a very solid blowing date. But TEHO (to each his own.)