Alexander Hawkins Posted June 9, 2003 Report Posted June 9, 2003 I know it's a Blue Note thread, but... "I'm not so keen on Kind Of Blue, either"... Guilty as charged. There. I said it. Quote
Parkertown Posted June 9, 2003 Report Posted June 9, 2003 Rolling on the floor, laughing my ass off!!! This was worthy of not being abbreviated! Quote
connoisseur series500 Posted June 9, 2003 Author Report Posted June 9, 2003 I know it's a Blue Note thread, but... "I'm not so keen on Kind Of Blue, either"... Guilty as charged. There. I said it. Man, this is something you guys ought to take up with God! Quote
ralphie_boy Posted June 9, 2003 Report Posted June 9, 2003 I don't think that KOB is overrated, maybe just overplayed? It's kinda the same with me and Stairway to Heaven and other AOR classics that have been beaten to death by the Program Directors. I can't listen to it anymore. Quote
Alexander Hawkins Posted June 9, 2003 Report Posted June 9, 2003 Fair point - I was too quick to jump in there. I don't mean overrated; I guess there's an extent to which 'that many peple can't be wrong', etc! It just doesn't do much for me personally... Quote
J Larsen Posted June 9, 2003 Report Posted June 9, 2003 I'm very surprised that Giant Steps was mentioned before Dodo Greene. Quote
connoisseur series500 Posted June 9, 2003 Author Report Posted June 9, 2003 More confessions: I don't like the "Complete Herbie Nichols Sessions" on BN. I don't like some Monk. Man, these two guys are too difficult for my amateurish ears! I have kept about 5 Monk cds which I DO like, but there were many I didn't; for ex. the session he did with Art Blakey. Left me cold. I do like his stuff with Sonny Rollins. Those two played beautifully together. I do like "Mysterioso." Excellent throughout. But Herbie Nicholls... boring! Quote
jazzbo Posted June 9, 2003 Report Posted June 9, 2003 Vive la difference! For me, Herbie Nichols. . . always STIMULATING! Quote
catesta Posted June 9, 2003 Report Posted June 9, 2003 (edited) Serenity Now...., SERENITY NOW! I find the difference of opinions here most interesting. B) I don't know of this means overated, but I still struggle with Dolphy's Out To Lunch, and Hill's Point Of Departure. Edited June 9, 2003 by catesta Quote
Soul Stream Posted June 9, 2003 Report Posted June 9, 2003 I usually find what I don't like today....I can't live without at some point in the future. Quote
BruceH Posted June 9, 2003 Report Posted June 9, 2003 I usually find what I don't like today....I can't live without at some point in the future. Yes indeed! I hear ya. But I forgot to mention Blakey's "Drums Around the Corner." Doesn't send me. But I'm keeping it, for the reason quoted above. And oh yeah---don't really like the whole Blue Note catalog, particularly between 1945-1965. Quote
jazzbo Posted June 9, 2003 Report Posted June 9, 2003 Catesta, I still struggle with those two as well. They're probably not overrated, but I don't get pleasure out of listening to them. Quote
Late Posted June 9, 2003 Report Posted June 9, 2003 Jim's concern with the term overrated I think can be disspelled if we were to say, in the context of this thread, that overrated = "doesn't reach me" or "leaves me unmoved." That's what I think this thread really is about. Catharthic indeed. It's nice to know that some other posters are unmoved (if only temporarily) by certain recordings that commonly receive praise. When this phenomena happens (a recording receiving praise, and often universal praise), I think what tends to happen as a result is that you sit there, in your favorite listening chair, and say, somewhat anxiously, "Gee, I better like this!" or "What's wrong wif me?" So many factors enter into a person's appreciation, or enthusiasm, regarding any one album. Out to Lunch always reaches me when I hear it, but I can understand how it wouldn't reach others. (Overrated schmoverrated.) Soul Stream's point is excellent. Hold on to what you don't like! It could be your Linus blanket next election year! Quote
vibes Posted June 9, 2003 Report Posted June 9, 2003 I know it's a Blue Note thread, but... "I'm not so keen on Kind Of Blue, either"... Guilty as charged. There. I said it. Guilty as well. Quote
connoisseur series500 Posted June 9, 2003 Author Report Posted June 9, 2003 And to continue on... I cannot take any of John Coltrane's Impulse stuff after "Love Supreme." Actually, the title with "Crescent" and "Dear Lord" is fine, but after that...especially when Pharoah joined the scene. One of the owners of a cd exchange shop put on "Om," while I was in the shop. I told him that I likened it to showing all the holes in your underwear in public. It's too damned personal. Not for public consumption. Some of Coltrane's Prestige stuff in hard to bear as well. It is uneven material as it has its good spots as well. I dislike any of the "cool" school of jazz that I've heard. I like Getz' Bossa Nova, but cannot handle him otherwise. Quote
JSngry Posted June 9, 2003 Report Posted June 9, 2003 (edited) All right then. Blue Notes I don't like... From the Lion Wolff era, I can honestly say that there are none. Not in the "oh geez, take that off NOW" way of not liking something. There's always something there, a good soloist, a good solo, a good tune, or just the enjoyment from a "document" standpoint (a POV not to be underestimated, btw). BUT... There are albums that I like LESS than others, ones that for me just don't quite gel or otherwise don't showcase the talent involved as well as others. They aren't "bad" albums, and are emminently likeable as part of a broader historical overview, but are not ones that I listen to recreationally. Actually there's a LOT of these, but let's not go THERE - time is short... Some of these which might surprise, given my stated tastes, are PAGE ONE, MODE FOR JOE, TROMPETTA TOCATTA, SONNY ROLLINS VOLUME 1, GRASS ROOTS, and any number of the more "blowing session" type dates from the 50s (the Griffin/Trane/Mobley & Gilmore/Jordan NOTABLY excepted). I'd quite often rather hear something like ACCENT ON THE BLUES, where maybe "lesser" players in the historical pantheon make more engaging (well, egaged, actually) music than a date by a heavyweight that doesn't reach full potential for whatever reason (and it's no shame when that happens). Also, in general, I think the label's output in the 60s paid greater attention to nuances of tempo and instrumental texture than did that of the 50s. Some of that might be the Silver influence blossoming out into a broader sphere, some of that might be the Englewood Cliffs studio and the sonic potentials it afforded, some of that might be the subtle-but-real influence of Duke Pearson, and some of that might be, and probably is, the confluence of the maturations of Lion as a producer with the musical maturation of many of his key artists (and a miraculous crop of new talent from within those artists' orbs). Whatever the reason, if I find CLIFF JORDAN and MODE FOR JOE ultimately equivalent in the "good, but not great, rather listen to something else by these guys" category, the difference in the production values and musical variety of the 2 records speaks volumes about the developements (dare I say "progress"?) made by both the music and the label. That's just for recreational listening though, and I've got two (at least) listening modes - recreational and historical, and both are vital to my enjoyment and understanding of music - ALL music. The two modes sometimes overlap. and sometimes one will morph into the other when nobody's looking. Besides, I've got way too much respect for the craftsmanship/professionalism of the musicians involved and too much humility (accquired by numerous personal failures) about the whole act of improvisation and to dare say that anybody made an actual "bad" record for BN, at least in the "golden era". Some were definitely/obviously more successful than others, but to call any of them out and out "bad" takes more nerve than I can muster. Now that Ron Carter Bach album - THAT'S a bad record! Edited June 9, 2003 by JSngry Quote
ralphie_boy Posted June 9, 2003 Report Posted June 9, 2003 (edited) Hey Jim, If I recall, weren't you a big proponent of that Ron Carter session? Edited June 9, 2003 by ralphie_boy Quote
desertblues Posted June 9, 2003 Report Posted June 9, 2003 I have to admit I'm shocked by the disdain (by some) for Whistle Stop, Cool Struttin', The Sidewinder and (gasp) Somethin' Else! I mean, DAMN, those albums define the "blue note sound"-don't they? Oh well, to each his own I guess. Quote
Soul Stream Posted June 9, 2003 Report Posted June 9, 2003 hank's piano intro into Autumn Leaves on Something Else....I mean think what you want about the rest of the brilliant record, but that alone is worth having it(not to mention everything else about the session!) Anyway, I actually like hearing these personal confessions. Quote
brownie Posted June 10, 2003 Report Posted June 10, 2003 'Standards' by Lee Morgan looked exciting with its lineup (Spaulding, Shorter, Adams, Hancock and others). Any new material from Lee Morgan is eagerly desirable as far as I am concerned. Bought it when it came out years after its recording. I played it once and filed it. Alfred Lion would never had recorded this. A bad Lee Morgan? That's blasphemy. And so it is. Quote
Brad Posted June 10, 2003 Report Posted June 10, 2003 The great thing about this thread is that obviously we don't agree on everything and it's like reading True Confessions: JAZZ FANS BARE ALL! Just hope there's no ax murdererers or worse here . Cool Struttin' is a great cd, IMHO. Autumn Leaves on Somethin' Else is the gold standard for me. Lee Morgan's Standards I liked, particularly Blue Gardenia. Brownie, did you mean Alfred would have never released this because I believe it was recorded while he was in charge. Quote
ralphie_boy Posted June 10, 2003 Report Posted June 10, 2003 I've never warmed up to Something Else as well. And Brad, don't kill me, but GO isn't one of my favorites either Quote
Ed S Posted June 10, 2003 Report Posted June 10, 2003 (edited) Just hope there's no ax murdererers or worse here . It didn't take long to come up with the "or worse", Brad. Ralphie boy just 'fessed up to not liking GO. Blasphemy at it worst ( or is it blasphemy at its best) B) Edited June 10, 2003 by Ed Swinnich Quote
Ed S Posted June 10, 2003 Report Posted June 10, 2003 (edited) By the way ralphie_boy - keep your comments about Our Man In Paris to yourself - unless you plan on ruining my day further B) Edited June 10, 2003 by Ed Swinnich Quote
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