Name some Blue Note cds you find overrated

[connoisseur series500]

Alright everyone. Don't view this as an exercise in negativity. View it as constructive criticism. This is not meant to start any fights.

I have expressed elsewhere my dislike for Don Wilkerson's Blue Note output. I also did not like Freddie Roach, "Good Move" or Jackie Mclean, "Tippin the Scales." I felt that Jackie was totally uninspired on this session.

I'll try to think of some others...

Let's hear yours.

[jazzbo]

For me it's the Moncurs. Just never have seemed as great to me as everyone else seems to find them. But then few here get excited as I do about the Hodes dates, so vive la difference!

[connoisseur series500]

I'm with you on those Moncurs, Lonson. I do like Moncur's contributions as a sideman on several sessions, such as Jackie Mac's "Destination Out." I also like his work with the Farmer/Golson Jazztet. However, those two Blue Note sessions left me cold. I did like Lee Morgan's blowing on "Evolution," however.

[J Larsen]

I can't get into the Braith conn or the Blue Mitchell discs, and I'm fairly indifferent to the Dizzy Reece cds. I'm also not much of a Three Sounds fan. I love Mobley, but Thinking of Home was a let down for me. I haven't given up on any of these (except maybe Braith and the Three Sounds), but they've yet to move me.

[connoisseur series500]

I traded away or sold my Dizzy Reece stuff: "Star Bright," "Blues in Trinity," and "Coming On," though I thought the last one wasn't bad. So I pretty much share your views there.

I am just exploring the Three Sounds right now. I like the Mitchell discs and I like Mobley's "Thinking of Home."

[J Larsen]

I like Mobley's "Thinking of Home."

I might have liked it more had my expectations not been so high.

[Saint Vitus]

This sure would not be a popular opinion around here but I found Stop and Listen to be quite ordinary. Grooves are solid and Green does some interesting things ... but oftentimes the music drags on and on without much happening. On the other hand, Fred Jackson brightens up the proceedings on Face to Face, one of my favorite Blue Notes.

[Late]

I'd concur on your Stop and Listen call, St. Vitus. And (viva la difference indeed!), I'm a fan of Tippin' the Scales, the (first two) Braiths, all the Reece's, and the Moncur's.

Now, for some hugely unpopular choices of the "overrated" (strictly in my book):

• Hank Mobley: The Turnaround, Straight No Filter, and A Slice of the Top

• Lee Morgan: Indeed!, Volume 2, Volume 3, and City Lights

While I like the compositions and the other session members' contributions on the Mobley sides, his own solos are mediocre (to me) in the extreme. In contrast, on the Morgan sides, I love Lee's solos, but often find the rest of the ensemble, and the writing, to be soporific.

Well, I guess I just done banned myself. It was nice posting.

Edited June 7, 2003 by Late

[J Larsen]

Don't worry, Late. Don't let it get out, I've never been a big fan of The Sidewinder. In fact, the fact that The Sidewinder was my first Lee Morgan delayed my appreciation of his music by at least a year.

[Morganized]

I like Mobley's "Thinking of Home." 

I have just recently purchased this one and have only been through it once, but I can't wait to get back to it soon. I am a big Hank Mobley fan but would not consider him my all time favorite or anything. Still I really liked what he had done here. I think it really showed where Hank may have been going with his music. It was different than his classic hard bop stuff in my opinion. It lacked some of the edge of his previous efforts, but it was so well thought out and the pieces really worked for me. I had heard some bad things about this one before I finally purchased it, but I have to admit that I am pleasantly surprised so far.

I also think The Turnaround and Straight No Filter are two of his better efforts so what do I know!!!!

Edited June 7, 2003 by Morganized

[Late]

I won't say a word!

Edited June 7, 2003 by Late

[connoisseur series500]

I also have a hard time getting into Willette, "Stop and Listen," but I do very much like Mobley, "Slice of the Top."

I do not care for Freddie Redd, "Redd's Blues," nor Wayne Shorter, "All Seeing Eye."

I feel "Davis Cup" is an indifferent record. Was very disappointed with it.

[J Larsen]

I also have a hard time getting into Willette, "Stop and Listen," but I do very much like Mobley, "Slice of the Top."

I do not care for Freddie Redd, "Redd's Blues," nor Wayne Shorter, "All Seeing Eye."

I feel "Davis Cup" is an indifferent record.  Was very disappointed with it.

I agree on most counts, except I actually like Stop and Listen and Davis Cup. I think part of why I like Davis Cup is that I had no expectations for it at all when I got it. I had never even heard of the record before, I just happened to see a used promo at Kim's for $5 and picked it up for the hell of it. If I had been seeking it, expecting it to be some monumental record, I probably would have been disappointed.

Edited June 7, 2003 by J Larsen

[Big Al]

THE REAL McCOY. Maybe there's such a thing as listening too hard? I've been trying to figure out how an album with four players I hold in high regard could make an album that didn't move me?

I also concur about the Moncurs.

[reg]

a few i just can't get into are Jackie mclean's Bluesnik, freddie redd's Redd's Blues and kenny dorham's Whistle Stop. not saying they are bad albums it's just they don't do much for me.

i like hank's Thinking of Home and the don wilkerson's set though. big fan of freddie roach's Good Move.

[vibes]

Lee Morgan - The Sidewinder (just doesn't do much for me, especially the title track)

Kenny Dorham - Una Mas (Just can't get into it, for some reason)

Dizzy Reece - Star Bright (Other than the first track, this one just strikes me as very plain)

Kenny Drew - Undercurrent (Also very plain)

A lot of Hank Mobley's stuff doesn't do it for me, although I've found "Roll Call" and "Soul Station" very enjoyable lately. I do have the Mosaic box and should spend more time with it.

Having mentioned all of those, I never get rid of CD's, because I've found that songs/albums may not be to my liking at one point in my life, but then do something for me later.

[Dan Gould]

I can't deal with Braith.

However, I cannot understand how anyone could get rid of Star Brite which has excellent compositions and superlative Mobley and Wynton Kelly.

[Ed S]

In the category of just don't like - Bobby Hutcherson's Natural Illusions. The absolute worst of what 70s Blue Note had to offer. The only reason I bring it up is because on occasion, I see it associated with a wish list for some 70s Hutchersons in the form of a box or just straight reissues. This one stinks.

I've seen the Sidewinder mentioned above as well. Not one of my favorites, although I like it enough. Greg Osby and Jason Moran did a killer cover of this tune during a recent concert I saw, BTW.

[Jazzmoose]

I agree with the comments here about The Sidewinder; The Rumproller is called a clone by many, but I think it's far superior. Fortunately I discovered Lee through his work with Art Blakey, so it didn't slow down my developing fanatacism.

My choice for least favorite Blue Note however, would be Freddie Hubbard's Hubtones. THAT one stopped me cold, until a few years later when this gang (back in the BNBB days!) convinced me to try Open Sesame.

[John Tapscott]

I found Hank's "Turnaround " a bit disappointing. Some of the tracks never seem to catch fire. On the other hand I really like "Thinking of Home."

[Son-of-a-Weizen]

LaRocca's "Basra", Jackie's "Swing, Swang, Swingin'", Blakey's "African Beat" and Donaldson's "LD+3" just don't click w/me.

Edited June 7, 2003 by Son-of-a-Weizen

[sal]

Joe Henderson's "Page One" never has done much for me. I'm a huge Joe Henderson fan, and I've liked every other album I've heard of his, both Blue Note and on other labels. But Page One just comes across to me as somewhat boring. I don't like Kenny Dorham's playing on that one, and I think Pete LaRoca was one of the weakest drummers that played for Blue Note in that era. However, Joe's and McCoy's solos keep me somewhat interested.

[Eric]

Great thread. Catharsis, in a sheepish sort of way. Anyway, I am not a huge fan of the early Morgan's either - Lee is fine, but don't care for the arrangements. Somethin' Else is another that (gasp) I cannot get into. Perhaps I just prefer the Miles stuff on Columbia.

I also can't get into Street of Dreams by Grant Green. Yeah, great line-up, but something about it is just annoying (to me).

Fortunately, my list of "hidden gems" on BN numbers about 50 ...

Eric

Edited June 7, 2003 by Eric

[Late]

Interesting thread! Lots of honesty here (... not that there isn't otherwise). One thing that Vibes pointed out, and that I think is a good rule of thumb — sometimes an album will "make sense" two or three years down the road, and occasionally even become a favorite. This is exactly what happened with me and Andrew Hill's Judgment! When this first came out as a Connoisseur, I picked it up right away, and was both underwhelmed and disappointed. I think it was about a year between the first initial spins and my next close listenings. Then, for some reason, the (lightbulb icon) popped up above my head ... and I couldn't stop playing it. Now it's one of my favorite Blue Notes, and I've been sucked into the upgrade-to-the-Japanese-remaster void.

Jan's point about expectations I think is also crucial. Sometimes when you find that impossible-to-locate disc, it's hard for it to measure up with what you've imagined hearing.

One thing about The Sidewinder: I find that this album plays a lot better (I mean with more interest) when I program the title track last in the playing order. Joe Henderson's solos on "Gary's Notebook" and "Totem Pole" ... (to quote "O" from Sex and the City): Me Likey!

[Soul Stream]

Davis Cup was a letdown for me. As was McLean's "Capuchin Swing." Not bad sessions, they just don't differentiate themselves to my ears to demand repeated listening.

Also the Jack Wilson Blue Notes I can live without. The early Lee Morgan and Hank Mobley stuff just pale so much in comparison to both of their great 60's BN output that they hardly ever get played at my house.

And my dirty little secret ....I don't listen to Jimmy Smith all that much. I used to, but now when I do, it's almost always his early, early stuff like "Groovin at Smalls" or Vol. 1, ect. I've always like the disciples more than the master...Patton, Gardner, Scott, Roach, Groove, McDuff, ect....