Bird's Trumpet front-line partners

[Alexander Hawkins]

Ok, I know I must have forgotten some. And also, I realise that more constructive would probably have been just a straightforward (i.e. sans poll) thread, but I was curious to start a poll!

This is a question that really interests me. Although they're some of the seminal Bird recordings, I've never much cared for Miles' playing with CP. On the other hand, I love the Navarro recordings with Bird; whilst all the time thinking that the paradigm bop front-line has got to be 'Bird'n'Diz' (so to speak). Perhaps the moral of the story is, don't worry about favourites, just enjoy the music! But anyway, as I say, I wanted to try out the poll function...

[jazzbo]

Well, ultimately I voted for Miles, because believe it or not over the years I've come to really really dig his playing on the sides with Bird. It's honest and it's challenged and it's beautiful in Miles' own way. The differences in their sounds and approach is also a great thing that I've come to appreciate.

Though to be honest, any vote here would get my defense!

[Late]

My vote goes to Red Rodney. The work he did with Bird on (one third of) Swedish Schnapps I think is full of fire and clarity, something that I don't always hear in Miles' or Diz's work with Bird. While the latter two tend to receive nearly all of the recognition when it comes to "having played with Charlie Parker," I think Rodney is deserving of equal attention.

[mikeweil]

Dizzy was on the same artistic level as Bird, that's why he got my vote. All the others were great, and I dig Dorham or McGhee even a little more than Diz, but this pairing was beyong comparison.

[JohnS]

This is a tricky one, they all sound good in their contexts and for me it boils down to the sessions I enjoy most, and that's nearly all of them. I've always especially enjoyed the Swedish Schnapps date so Red Rodney is my choice. On another day it might be Dizzy, Fats, Miles or Dorham.

[Ed S]

I voted for Rodney as well, mostly because I thught he's desrving of the attention and thought others would overlook him. One thing this poll shows me - I need to get more Parker in my collection.

[king ubu]

I had to vote for KD, as no one else had yet... I think the Savoy live sides he made with Parker are some of the best Parker ever recorded - and part of the reason why might well be Kenny Dorham.

ubu

[John L]

I had to vote for Diz here, the other half of the heartbeat!

As for those voting for Rodney, what do you base your judgement on? The one studio date on Verve? The short 1949 Carnegie Hall tape? Some Bird concerts you were able to attend personally?

[John Tapscott]

Dizzy was on the same artistic level as Bird, that's why he got my vote. All the others were great, and I dig Dorham or McGhee even a little more than Diz, but this pairing was beyong comparison.

I have to agree with this. Dizzy was perhaps the only one of these trumpet players who was truly Bird's equal (and far more than a "worthy constituent"). I have come to the conclusion after a listening several times to last weeks AOTW, that Diz inspired Bird like no other trumpet player. The others were all very good and Fats pushed Bird too, but it seems that whenever Diz was around, on trumpet or piano, Bird's playing moved up a notch (if that were possible).

So my vote goes to Diz.

[connoisseur series500]

Diz should have been left out of the poll. It not fair to the other great trumpeters.

I voted for Dizzy of course. He was the "be" to Parker's "bop."

[Guest Mnytime]

Dizzy is the easy choice for me. Can't agree with my wise friend Lon (who along with Jim are the boards Jazz Gurus) on Miles. Miles from my point of view really doesn't even belong on many of those dates as shakey his playing was. The Miles in say 5-10 years is a different story.

Edited June 8, 2003 by Mnytime

[brownie]

I voted for Dorham. It's when he was playing with Bird that KD matured to become

the great trumpet player he grew into.

Dizzy is the obvious choice (agree with Connoisseur series500: he should have been

left out) and the obvious winner but KD is my favorite player of the lot.

[J Larsen]

I have to say I'm a bit surprised that Diz only has 58% of the vote!

[jazzbo]

I am not a jazz guru on any board!

But I don't hear his playing as shakey on almost any of the recordings. Different yes, seeking, questing, cautious, maybe even unconfident, but not shakey.

USED to hear it that way a bit but don't any longer.

[EKE BBB]

I also voted for the most obvious choice, Dizzy.

In second place I´d take Fats Navarro or Miles.

[king ubu]

I'm with Lon on Miles in Bird's quintet. He may certainly sound "shaky" or immature of insecure or whatever you may call it - if you want to hear it that way! But if you go beyond that, you might hear a young trumpet player doing something extremely lyrical, and I think what Miles did in the late forties next to Bird was totally apt: he played the style he was able to (technically) and in which he could express his thoughts the best possible.

ubu

[Brad]

For obvious reasons I voted for Dizzy but in a strong second is Miles, whose playing I don't find shaky at all. Miles is part of that fabled Charlie Parker quintet of the late 40s and he was an integral member of that unit. Bird obviously saw something in him to give him the trumpet chair. His future brilliance can be glimpsed from his first session as a leader on Savoy, where Bird played tenor. I like his playing from this period and to pick anyone else other than Dizzy doesn't make sense to me.

[paul secor]

I went with Fats. Could have voted for Dizzy, but Bird did some great live recording with Fats.

[John L]

Speaking of Fats... I don't recall ever reading that Bird tried to hire him. Maybe that indirectly helps to make the case about Miles.

Although I voted for Diz, I can understand the choice of Miles. I also enjoy his playing with Bird. As brilliant as Diz was with Bird, Miles offered something different, and perhaps something that Bird preferred himself. Diz thrived on "frantic" bop arrangements and would chase Bird all over any musical terrain. Miles offered a cooler contrast to Bird's pyrotechnics. After hearing Bird, you almost needed a cool dose of something. Miles also gave Bird more flexibility as a leader to step away a bit from the more "pure" bop that Diz was peddling at the time.

One thing that amazes me when I listen to Miles with Bird is how Miles could follow absolutely genius and groundbreaking Bird solos without making you feel let down. The contrast almost always seemed right.

[Dan Gould]

An impossible choice but I went with KD (that is until I foolishly clicked on the "null vote" button instead of the "vote" button

[jazzbo]

John, that's how I feel too, that contrast was a very strong factor for the musical stew in my opinion. And Miles looked for and used a similart contrast for most of the music he made in the decades to come.

[Alexander Hawkins]

I have to say, I'm quite surprised that Diz is winning out by so much. I'd have taken the punt that he'd top it, but by that much..?

I'd have thought, perhaps, that Navarro would be higher as well.

Oh well!

It's interesting to hear what people have to say about Miles with Bird. I used not to be able to stand him; I am coming around to his playing, if slowly! The jury's still out for me, but music wouldn't be as much fun if we all had it 'figured' on the first listening!

[chris olivarez]

Dizzy. Bird and Diz together faster than the speed of light and with feeling!!!!

[EBrew]

As big a Miles Davis fan as I am I gotta go with Dizzy. Bird and Diz changed the landscape of music together. Like someone else said - Diz said that Bird was the other half of his heartbeat. Can't have one without the other. It's like chicken without waffles! B)

[marcoliv]

Hi!

Miles got mine

peace

Marcus Oliveira