Time To Ditch VHS

[Son-of-a-Weizen]

I spent hours this past weekend fast forwarding & rewinding through 2 dozen tapes trying to find a couple of PBS mysteries, etc we'd taped here & there. The old clunker machine is about to die anyway, so it might be time to get a recordable DVD. All I want is something that that I can record some shows on, watch & then erase. No need for all sorts of additional bells and whistles that'll allow you to brew coffee, etc because we won't use 'em. Is there a decent mid-price, dependable unit out there.....one that won't have blur problems that I'd read about w/some fast action events -- or is that no longer a problem)?

[Kevin Bresnahan]

Go out and buy a nice S-VHS machine. You should be able ot get a good one for around $80-120. In my opinion, the DVD recorders aren't worth the extra dough. The blank media is more expensive and the video quality isn't much better than S-VHS. DVD video is compressed video and if you use the recorder to maximize the amount of video you want to store, the quality goes way down. There's also a big question about longevity of the RW discs. A lot of people are having problems with compatability with older DVD players too. I've read a few comments on video boards of people who made the switch who wish they hadn't.

FWIW, my sister insisted on going this route in December and asked me for advice. I did some research at the video forums ( www.avsforum.com and www.hometheaterspot.com ) and I recommended the Lite-on machine as the best bang-for-the-buck. It gets good reviews and is very inexpensive. If you want to give one a try, you should be able to find one for under $200.

Later,

Kevin

[Pete B]

I recently bought a Toshiba machine to use in dubbing some fairly rare VHS tapes a friend lent me. I haven't used it to record tv shows yet (I'm a bit lazy about digesting the 155-page instruction book!) but it does nice dubs from tape. Cost was $249 at Costco.

[Guest Chaney]

Is it possible to use a TiVo-type machine -- recording to a hard drive -- without subscribing to a TiVo-like service?

Or how about this TiVi-offered machine:

DVD burning has never been this easy! Think of it as three products in one: An 80-hour TiVo digital video recorder, a progressive-scan DVD player, and an easy-to-use DVD recorder. Burn your favorite shows (or even home movies you have on your camcorder) to DVD so you can watch them anywhere.

Cost: $399 --- AFTER $100 rebate

LINK

Edited January 18, 2005 by Chaney

[Jim Alfredson]

TiVo is pretty cool. If I watched more TV, I'd get one. SVHS is nice and I agree with Kevin that the compression on DVDs is shitty (thanks again, industry for rolling something out before it's time) but the media has really come down in price and for archiving TV shows to watch again, it's fine.

[rockefeller center]

Go out and buy a nice S-VHS machine. You should be able ot get a good one for around $80-120. In my opinion, the DVD recorders aren't worth the extra dough. The blank media is more expensive and the video quality isn't much better than S-VHS.

Quick Amazon search:

DVD-RW: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...ronics&n=507846

DVD-R: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...ronics&n=507846

S-VHS: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...=photo&n=507846

DVD video is compressed video and if you use the recorder to maximize the amount of video you want to store, the quality goes way down.

If the source isn't extremely noisy and bitrate >3.5 Mbps I don't believe DVD is worse than S-VHS.

There's also a big question about longevity of the RW discs.

While there's no question about longetivity of S-VHS tapes. Their longetivity sucks.

[RDK]

TIVO (or any Tivo-like device) is great! Can't believe how much it's changed the TV viewing experience, especially if one has kids. If you ever used a VCR for time-shifting, a Tivo is so much better.

[Kevin Bresnahan]

Quick Amazon search:

DVD-RW: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...ronics&n=507846

DVD-R: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...ronics&n=507846

S-VHS: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...=photo&n=507846

I record in "S video" mode on my Mitsubishi S-VHS deck using standard VHS tapes and they look great. I never even knew they made "S-VHS" blanks. Good, high-quality VHS tapes are usually less than $1. DVD-RW blanks are usually more than that.

As for the longevity of VHS tapes being "sucky", where do you find that information? I have VHS tapes that are 20 years old and they still play fine. I don't even see bleed through. I've never read of any problems with VHS tapes. If there are problems, I have some old wedding tapes that I'll have to back up quickly!

Later,

Kevin

[rockefeller center]

As for the longevity of VHS tapes being "sucky", where do you find that information?

http://www.clir.org/pubs/reports/pub54/2what_wrong.html

http://www.calband.berkeley.edu/calband/cbaa/archiving/

I record in "S video" mode on my Mitsubishi S-VHS deck using standard VHS tapes and they look great. I never even knew they made "S-VHS" blanks.

S-VHS cassettes are different from VHS cassettes. You have to drill/melt a hole in a VHS cassette to be able to record in S-VHS mode (that you probably won't get S-VHS quality is another issue).

http://www.afterdawn.com/glossary/terms/svhs.cfm

http://kasoft.freeyellow.com/Central/Audio...Press/SVHS.html

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/hembrow/oldpage/svhs/

http://aroundcny.com/technofile/texts/cheapersvhs90.html

[Kevin Bresnahan]

All I know is that I have recorded off the air onto "standard" VHS tapes with "S video" on and off and the difference is very noticeable. I will have to look into these S-VHS blanks.

I will check out the links you gave for longevity but it's off to volleyball for now... gotta get some exercise.

Later,

Kevin

[medjuck]

My cable system (Cox) offered a DVR cable box for $9 more a month. If you go HD the DVR is included. I expec that this is the wave of the future and will allow yo to avoid one set top box.

[BERIGAN]

Weizy, I have a Phillips DVD recorder I got Christmas before last. DVDR-75. Just checked at Amazon, and the DVDR-77 is the same machine, except for a media slot. It is $269, I paid $400+ last year.

This is a DVD+R, +RW machine. (Can't use the DVD-R -RW discs that seem to be a bit more common on the shelves)

I can't say that I am too happy with the thing. If you record anything from tape to disc, if it isn't in the 1 or 2 hour mode it is a really crude copy. (Doesn't sound like it would be a big issue for you) The machine is very slow to react, I am forever turning it off cuz it doesn't seem like I turned it on(I did, it just takes 20-30 seconds to react-I joke that the tubes take awhile to warm up)

It came with a 100+ page manual, that wasn't of much help. (In fact, never have had as much trouble hooking up a device as I did with this-the beta, laserdisc, and vhs just were not problems)

It records live tv fine, but the 6 hour mode is not much better than a VHS mode, IMO. Not as good as my ol' Betamax in fact. 1 Hour mode is great, but not long enough for movies. I was forever having to "Finalize" discs, meaning I couldn't play a disc in another non Phillips DVD player, till I was finished recording it. And one in 10 discs would have an error(Usually, when I was filling up the last half hour on the disc) that would ruin the whole disc! Then, I found a stack of DVD-RW discs for about a buck a disc, no more formatting/finalizing issues, they will play on any machine, at any time. Wish I had known before, I will never buy another +R disc again.

Prices are MUCH cheaper for discs than they were a year ago. In fact, if you shop around you can get name brand +RWs for less than a dollar a disc! I got 25 Memorex for $18 at fry's. With my machine though, it still is a little harder to erase a show than on VHS, but the more you do it, the easier it gets.

Yeah, they put the recorders out too soon.

So, long story longer, if you don't keep anything that you tape, look into a tivo or tivo like device. Thru Dish network, we can record upto a 100 hours on the satellite box hardrive, AND if you haven't changed channels, rewind "live" tv going back 2 hours!!!

Edited January 19, 2005 by BERIGAN

[Kevin Bresnahan]

Berigan's story is one I've read time & time again. Confusing to use. Slow. Poor video quality. Incompatability. Problems with certain media. I don't think this technology is ready for prime time yet. I still think S-VHS is the way to go.

BTW, for reference, store-bought DVDs are dual layer. They only put about 60 minutes onto each layer. Therefore, it only makes sense that unless you record only one hour on the blank, the video quality will go down from store-bought DVD video quality. In 6 hour mode, to my eyes, it looks no better than standard VHS in EP mode.

S-VHS in SP mode will get you 2 hours on a T-120 tape in better quality than most DVD recorders.

Later,

Kevin

[Son-of-a-Weizen]

Enlightening comments......think we'll hold off on the DVD recorder for now and have a look at Tivo. Thank you.

[1ngram]

Alas I still have about twenty betamax tapes full of highlights of Aberdeen Football Club in their golden years when they thrashed everyone in sight and won the European Cup Winners Cup. I even still have a betamax machine lurking is a dark corner to play these gems. What should I eventually transfer this marterial on to and how easy/cheap is it to get it done?

[RDK]

If you have DISH, they have a Tivo-like box/receiver that works great and (for us, at least) was essentially free during a promo offer. It may now be like $5/mo.

[rockefeller center]

Both Tivo and DVD use MPEG2 compression but DVD has higher resolution and can handle higher bitrates.

[rostasi]

Any updates that anyone would like to add?

Doing a bit of shopping for a DVD/HD recorder.

[jazzbo]

I now have this Sony VCR/DVD Recorder and am quite happy with it, RDR-VX515. One touch dubbing of vhs to dvd or vice versa. Uses + and - media. Picture quality is good. Maybe not the best, but definitely suitable for my use and in its best quality mode as good as the source tape at least as far as I can tell on my old Sony 17" tv and my laptop. Reads all cdrs, dvdrs, mp3 cds, etc. The sound is really great, the best sound I've had from a dvd player.

Transferring a lot of jazz stuff on vhs that I really don't watch much but can and will now, on my laptop, or can play them for sound in my Sony SACD/DVD player in the main listening rig.

One really nice thing for me is that I was able to remove three other machines from the system with this one: my vcr, my Toshiba dvd player, and a Philips cd recorder I was using as a transport to feed my HHB Burnit cd recorder. This one machine does all that I needed from those three.

Here's the circuit city page:

http://www.circuitcity.com/rpsm/oid/128220...DetailReview.do

Listening right now on my main listening rig to a dvdr of the Randy Weston live at St. Lucia vhs tape I had. Sounds great!

Edited December 9, 2005 by jazzbo

[Guest]

has anyone here ever utilized a reel to reel VTR (video tape recorder)? they were commercially available for a short time in the 60s, and had a reel to reel built right into the top of the television set. I have never seen one being sold secondhand, even on e-bay

[chandra]

We have been using the Emerson DVD-VHS recorder. It is easy to dub VHS tapes to DVD with this machine. The price has come down to below $200 at Walmart. If you just want a DVD recorder, the price has come down to below $100 on some models ( e.g. http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=3610576 ).

These dubbing machines give you various modes to record in: 2x, 4x, 6x, 8x. We experimented with really crappy quality VHS tapes. The quality is pretty much the same as VHS even at 8x for those tapes. For TV shows recorded to VHS, we can't tell the difference if it is recorded at 2x or 4x.

With respect to durability, definitely the digital recording is more durable than the magnetic tape. But I have reservations about the physical media itself. The VHS magnetic tape is encased in that hard shell so it tolerates physical abuse a lot better. DVD disks are easy to break, easy to scratch. If there is a small crack near the center hole, even if the crack does not reach the recorded area, many DVD players will have difficulty playing the media. So, exercise a lot of care with those disks after dubbing.

We decided to transfer around 500+ tapes to DVD mainly for space reasons.

The DVD media prices have come down a lot. CompUSA sells their store brand, which they claim are made by Fuji, sometimes on sale at less than $10 for a 50 pack.

[Son-of-a-Weizen]

A year later I'm still on the fence w/this....although, last week, I checked out what I believe to be that SONY unit at Target. I'm still a bit confused about the storage capacity though for the DVD-RW (for recording television shows and then erasing 'em). One of the reviewers from that Circuit City link says that he's getting something like 14 hours on the disc. Other sites talk about DVD-RW/DVD+RW giving you 2 hours of studio-quality video. Soooooo, 2 hrs or studio quality video translates into 12-14 hrs of CSI and Pats games recorded from the boob tube???

[jazzbo]

With dual layer DVD + discs (the - discs don't come in dual layer) you can supposedly get 14 hours total capacity. Quality of the image is going to be a bit compromised. . . .

I haven't tried it. I have been doing burns of 60 minute, 90 minute or 120 minute lengths, the quality of the image and sound is very good at these "speeds."

[jazzbo]

If you REALLY want to record and then erase tv shows. . . I would pay a bit more and get one of the models with a hard drive copying system. Copy to the hard drive, watch, erase.

[Man with the Golden Arm]

I JUST got a Panasonic cheapie for $150 w the rebates that does DVD RAM as well as the other formats. Have only snapped the pages back on the manual and tried it a couple of times so I know nothing yet. Does a beautiful job with resolution - and we have one of them things called an antenna on the chimney - the RAMs are like tapes I gather in that you just keep on reformatting them and copying over it for as long as you'd like. Does a variety of time modes for multiple hours on the two hour discs. Not sure what the max is?

I plan on archiving some of the 8s we have to DVD (getting rid of those hours of somebody forgetfully recording a glass of wine on the counter) but don't have the time to do it the right way on the computer.