Art Taylor

[Late]

A lot of OJCs have been going through my player lately, and, as a result, I've been listening to a lot of Art Taylor. In 1957 alone — he must have lived at Rudy Van Gelder's studio! To my ears, Taylor combines the hard drive of Philly Joe with the finesse of Roy Haynes: an impeccable sense of swing, unobtrusive support behind soloists, and crackling solos of his own when called upon.

Does it ever seem to you, though, that Taylor's name is not mentioned in the same sentences with Roach, Blakey, and Jones (both Philly and Elvin)? I wouldn't say that Taylor is "overlooked," but it does seem, for whatever reason, his star hasn't been as bright in jazz history. I guess it doesn't really matter — the guy can play.

What are your favorite Taylor appearances on record? And, if possible to list, are there any Taylor solos that especially stand out to you?

[Michael Fitzgerald]

John Coltrane: Countdown.

Taylor probably gets passed over because he didn't really contribute anything new or different - he just did the job really well. I prefer him to a lot of players - for example, I'm glad he was the Prestige guy rather than Jimmy Cobb.

Mike

[jazzbo]

Go figure. I'm just not a Taylor fan really. . . I'd rather hear Cobb. Res gustibus non disputandae sunt.

[JSngry]

Between Taylor & Cobb, I'll take Philly Joe.

[CJ Shearn]

I dig Taylor's crisp, hard swing.

[Jazz Kat]

Taylor didn't revolutionalize anything! You could put Philly Joe and and AT in the same room, put a blind fold on your face, let them play one at a time, you wouldn't know the difference. Sure Art was a great drummer. His technique was tremendous. It just wasn't anything new. He was in the school of the drummers that Philly started. Soultrane is one date of his I love. Great drumming! Listen to Countdown on Giant Steps, he's cookin'!

[Free For All]

You could put Philly Joe and and AT in the same room, put a blind fold on your face, let them play one at a time, you wouldn't know the difference.

JK, I think you'll find a considerable number of people here who could tell the difference immediately!

[Jazz Kat]

And others who can agree. Was it Chuck Flores who said it sounded like AT was just trying to sounded like Philly Joe?

[Chuck Nessa]

After Blakey, Roach and PJJ, AT was the next call. Not a bad place to be.

[Jazz Kat]

AT as a musicians choice in the 50's, espcially for Prestige recordings. There's a reason for that.

[Late]

Sure Art was a great drummer. His technique was tremendous. It just wasn't anything new.

I suppose the same logic could be applied to Hank Mobley, Cannonball Adderley, Donald Byrd, Red Garland, Doug Watkins ...

But I do think that Taylor's soloing has a distinctive signature to it. Yes, he's of the Philly Joe mold, but his touch seems lighter, and there also seems to be less bass drum "bombs" in his playing. While I might personally like Philly Joe's solos "better," Art Taylor's solos and ensemble work often have a subtlety to them that can go unnoticed.

[mikeweil]

Maybe he was a bit cheaper to hire than Philly Joe ....

But seriously, besides that I like Philly Joe or Cobb a little more, he must have carried a few substance-related problems with him - which was one of the main reason he went to Europe, IIRC - and had two characteristics in his playing rthat may have caused opposition:

- he was very heavy on the sock cymbal (Miles sure didn't like this)

- he rushed the time while soloing.

Has anybody read his collection of interviews, Notes and Tones? Very interesting read - but it shows a little that there must have been some tension in his relationship to the US scene.

[JohnS]

I dig Taylor's crisp, hard swing.

Me too, he's on my cd player now with the Cliff Jordan Sextet (BN 1565). Faultless.

[brownie]

The list of musicians who took part in the first session under his name ('Taylor's Wailers' Prestige 7117) is pretty impressive! Donald Byrd, Jackie McLean, Charlie Rouse, Ray Bryant and Wendell Marshall.

Thelonious Monk was also present at the recording session and supplied the arrangements for the two compositions of his that were performed for the date, 'Well You Needn't' and 'Off Minor'.

[sal]

Taylor is a great drummer, and believe me, I can tell the difference between him and Philly Joe if blindfolded! I agree that he wasn't innovative, but I can tell you, he played ALOT better than a good number of those drummers who were popping up on sessions left and right around that time. Plus, something that AT gets overlooked for is his incredible brushwork. He had this sixteenth note groove that he would play on ballads sometimes....really swinging.

I've been digging my new Dizzy Reece Mosaic Select....AT is all over it! Great stuff.

[JSngry]

Lest I be misunderstood, I have very high respect for Art Taylor. He's just not somebody who makes me go OOOOOH!!!!! when I see his name on a record. I know that everything will be fine, and that the drumming will be in good hands. I just look to see who else is on the record before deciding whether or not to buy it, if you know what I mean.

A.T's work was the subject of discussion a while back amongst some friends, and the classic line that emerged from the discussion was "generic, but great". To me, that just about says it all.

And as a "soldier", a fighter and survivior of those years and that scene, he gets nothing but love from me. But that's a different thing.

Edited January 18, 2005 by JSngry

[king ubu]

Thelonious Monk was also present at the recording session and supplied the arrangements for the two compositions of his that were performed for the date, 'Well You Needn't' and 'Off Minor'.

Taylor was also the original drummer of Monk's quartet with Charlie Rouse (with Sam Jones on bass) (at least I read that somewhere, they can be heard on "5 by Monk by 5" and the Town Hall album, both with additinal musicians).

I have lots of respect for A.T., too, and enjoy many many of the sessions he played. He and Garland and Chambers sound terrific together on those Coltrane Prestige albums (favourites are Soultrane, Traneing in, and Setting the Pace).

Also like what he plays with Bud Powell on those later BN sessions.

He might not have been an innovator, but he certainly had style (I don't mean "his (own) style", but just "having style", which is a cool thing in itself).

ubu

[Brad]

John Coltrane: Countdown.

Taylor probably gets passed over because he didn't really contribute anything new or different - he just did the job really well. I prefer him to a lot of players - for example, I'm glad he was the Prestige guy rather than Jimmy Cobb.

Mike

Mike,

What do you mean by this? I like AT but I also like Jimmy Cobb as well.

[sal]

John Coltrane: Countdown.

Taylor probably gets passed over because he didn't really contribute anything new or different - he just did the job really well. I prefer him to a lot of players - for example, I'm glad he was the Prestige guy rather than Jimmy Cobb.

Mike

Mike,

What do you mean by this? I like AT but I also like Jimmy Cobb as well.

I like Jimmy Cobb as well. He's got a nice touch and a near perfect sense of swing. But on a song like "Countdown", he wouldn't have lasted. Jimmy Cobb never had the chops that AT had. I always put Jimmy Cobb in a similar category as Billy Higgins (although they are very different stylisticly) in that they could both swing the shit out of a song and really drive a band, but they weren't the greatest soloists, and that's because they lacked chops. Art Taylor had chops galore.

[Brad]

I'm no drummer but isn't that what a drummer is supposed to essentially do: "swing the shit out of a song and really drive a band." That's what a drummer is supposed to. Soloing is a bonus. Maybe we don't fundamentally disagree but Cobb is no slouch.

[Michael Fitzgerald]

It's my opinion that Art Taylor has more "pop" than Jimmy Cobb. He pushes things more and is a more inspiring player than Cobb. Perhaps a notch under Philly Joe, perhaps two notches under Art Blakey, say. Cobb does not have the lift that I like to hear. If you worship the Kelly-Chambers-Cobb section (and lots of people do), that's great. It's just not my favorite. I find them too subdued.

Mike

[CJ Shearn]

I believe AT was a synthesis of the styles of Philly Joe and Blakey. I enjoy Jimmy Cobb as well, again I love the swing, actually I enjoy a lot of drummers who are just tasteful, and don't overload the proceedings. Another fav. of mine would be Grady Tate. Boy, what a touch he has! B-)

[Jazz Kat]

Now it's Jimmy Cobb vs. AT. AT was better i my opinion. Bill Evans wasn't too fond of Cobb, as he said that he played extremely loud and drowned out his band. AT never had a problem with this. Jimmy grew into a great drummer though. Can I choose who I LIKE better? No. They're both good.

Edited January 18, 2005 by Jazz Kat

[pryan]

It's my opinion that Art Taylor has more "pop" than Jimmy Cobb. He pushes things more and is a more inspiring player than Cobb. Perhaps a notch under Philly Joe, perhaps two notches under Art Blakey, say. Cobb does not have the lift that I like to hear. If you worship the Kelly-Chambers-Cobb section (and lots of people do), that's great. It's just not my favorite. I find them too subdued.

Mike

I really like that rhythm section; their sense of swing was impeccable. Could you elaborate a bit on the "subdued" comment?

[pryan]

I would disagree with the poster who says that AT and Billy Higgins "lacked chops". Perhaps they weren't the virtuosos of say a Buddy Rich or Max Roach, but they could still solo very well.

I wouldn't say soloing, for drummers, is a "bonus" either. Drummers usually are soloing constantly, in their reactions to the other soloists, or the commentary that they provide. They must react and respond instantly. A drum solo may stand out because it is unaccompanied (usually), but in no way should it be considered a "bonus", IMO.

Edited January 19, 2005 by pryan