Sterophile Article

[wolff]

I don't think SACD will die out.  I think it will remain a niche product.  In fact, it could help smaller record labels.  For example, as the majors drop out of the SACD- DVD/A race, smaller labels could use it as a selling point for their more specialized audience-- an audience more likely to appreciate higher rez formats.

This would be fine by me. Also, more new recordings have got to be recorded using DSD!! Otherwise, what's the point?

It's also a shame this technology is owned by Sony/Phillips.

Edited January 19, 2005 by wolff

[JSngry]

All I'm saying, Kevin, is that the notion of "surround sound" as anything other than pure "fun" (and I'll not deny that it is that!) leaves me skeptical. So far.

How "real" is the sound of a record that was produced with isolation booths, mutitracks, and overdubs, surround sound or otherwise? Sure it's fun, but it's hardly real. It's a construct, and as such can be treated any which way in terms of soundstaging. Which, again, is fun, but I don't know that I'd necessarily enjoy the music of Aereosmith any more in 2005 surround sound than I would in a 71 Pinto playing on an 8-Track, if you know what I mean.

I'm all about the fun, and I'm all about the real as well. But they're different things. Any genuine intersection of the two is a gas, but it will happen coincidentally, not as a result of manufacturing. Usually, anyway.

And truthfully, I never cared too much for the hyper quality of so many modern movies, all the shit going off on all sides and that. I know I'm in a minority, but oh well. Give me a good story well told, and I'm happy. If I want my senses stripped, I'll call Mr. Tambourine Man.

Seriously, all of this stuff is fun, really, but it's no substitute for content. When the style and the substance meet at a high level, then I'll be interested. But so far, my experience has been that style is waaaaaaay out in front of this race. I know that Bob Belden recorded BLACK DAHLIA specifically with a mutlichannel soundstage in mind, and that he's working on a concept of "holographic music" (ie, the performers having multiple sound output points at their disposal as part of the "instrumentation", and as material for improvising as well. In other words, the points of sound emanation can be improvised to meet the moment just as the actual music itself can). These are the types of things that give the medium the potential for "serious" consideration, in my opinion, when they're an integral part of the actual conceived content, not a means to tickle the senses.

But right now, it's mostly just for fun. Which is cool indeed, but still...

[Kevin Bresnahan]

I know that Bob Belden recorded BLACK DAHLIA specifically with a mutlichannel soundstage in mind, and that he's working on a concept of "holographic music" (ie, the performers having multiple sound output points at their disposal as part of the "instrumentation", and as material for improvising as well. In other words, the points of sound emanation can be improvised to meet the moment just as the actual music itself can). These are the types of things that give the medium the potential for "serious" consideration, in my opinion, when they're an integral part of the actual conceived content, not a means to tickle the senses.

But right now, it's mostly just for fun. Which is cool indeed, but still...

Oh... I completely forgot about "Black Dahlia"! That is a great multi-channel recording. Thanks for reminding me of that one.

I guess what I get out of well-made multi-channel disc is more "involvement". It's not just in front of you, it's all around you. It gets your mind listening for the sounds regardless of the location and to me, that's fun... just as you've described. So far, I'm digging it but I will admit that there have been a few discs that I've switched over to the stereo playback... and that's another beauty of SACDs... there's always a stereo mix.

Now, believe me, I only recently converted my audio system to multi-channel because originally, I felt it was just a gimmic. But I have really enjoyed a number of these multi-channel discs. The Eagles "Hotel California", Yes' "Roundabout", Neil Young's "Harvest" (although I think that's one that sounds better in stereo), Pink Floyd's "Dark Side of the Moon", Aerosmith's "Toys in the Attic" and others.

Now, looking at this list, you'll see there aren't a lot of Jazz dates there. This is true. Most Jazz dates don't really lend themselves well to surround. Who needs the piano player's left hand in one speaker and his right hand in another? Well, truth be told, most Jazz SACDs are stereo, not multi-channel. Even the "multi-channel" "Kind of Blue" is only 3 track. They simply put each of the original 3 tracks off the master tapes into the left/right/center speakers with some echo in the back that's hardly even audible. In the end, this just gives me a great playback of the 3 track master and that's all I want.

Later,

Kevin

[Leeway]

Kevin,

If you're looking for jazz albums in surround sound, check out this Buster Williams CD, recorded by Rudy Van Gelder, who designed the CD to be a showpiece for 5.1 surround sound. From what I've read, RVG is a big proponent of surround sound, so you are in esteemed company.