Career advice for 8th grade girls?

[JSngry]

I've played more than a few gigs in "men's clubs", and believe me, the exploitation works both ways.

TOTALLY non-erotic when viewed "from the outside". The name of the game IS exploitation - the owners exploit the women, and the women exploit the customers.

It's all consenting adults, with the consent being mutual, so hey, let it be. Needs are being met. But personally, I find it to be an atmosphere that is ultimately depressing in it's compression of the human spirit.

What happens naturally is one thing, but what happens strictly in the interest of commerce is something else entirely. Not unlike music. And no, my hands aren't clean in either regard (now there's a disgusting metaphor for you. ).

[couw]

(now there's a disgusting metaphor for you. ).

first we get tomfoolery with taco rolls, and now this.

[JSngry]

Just keep away from donkeys and enchilladas, ok?

[Guest ariceffron]

red menance- are u a communist too?? how many commies are on here anyway. jeez. but yes you do 'make the cut', or 'qualify', et al

are u really 87?

[connoisseur series500]

red menance- are u a communist too?? how many commies are on here anyway. jeez. but yes you do 'make the cut', or 'qualify', et al

are u really 87?

I'd say he must be at least 135 years old. Gotta be that age to still believe that kind of horsecrap!

[alankin]

Amusing novel about the subject:

(I happily haven't seen the unamusing film verson.)

[alankin]

As a Marxist (and no, Marx didn't write about stripping and/or porn films per se, although he did address prostitution) my beef isn't with the morality of porn or stripping, but with the abuses of power and the havock it creates in the lives of those who are exploited. If a strip club were owned and operated by the women who stripped there (the workers own the means of production), I would have no objection to it. But you and I both know that if that ever happens, it is extremely rare.

There's such a club in San Francisco. There were the inevitable clashes between workers and their self-management, worries about expenses & benefits, etc. (I don't know if they're still in business.)

[connoisseur series500]

As a Marxist (and no, Marx didn't write about stripping and/or porn films per se, although he did address prostitution) my beef isn't with the morality of porn or stripping, but with the abuses of power and the havock it creates in the lives of those who are exploited.  If a strip club were owned and operated by the women who stripped there (the workers own the means of production), I would have no objection to it.  But you and I both know that if that ever happens, it is extremely rare.

There's such a club in San Francisco. There were the inevitable clashes between workers and their self-management, worries about expenses & benefits, etc. (I don't know if they're still in business.)

I guess we shouldn't be surprised. It takes business people to run a business. It really does. These "collectives" are harder to pan out.

[patricia]

To be clear, I am not saying that stripping is never a last resort to homelessness.  But to imply that every, or even a majority, of strippers are doing it due to extreme poverty is ridiculous.

So, Alex, care to give us the Marxist interpretation of women who are adult film performers?

I'm sure the marxist interpretion is fascinating.  But you have to admit, its a unique industry, considering that women get paid thousands of dollars per week (or scene) but the poor men only get a few hundred dollars per money shot.  Talk about being exploited!  Those "stunt cocks" have to perform through multiple camera set-ups, with dozens of people watching, hot lights all around, and maintain their, shall we say, self-control, all for a few hundred dollars.

Thank you for introducing the idea of male stripping/porn movies

as a viable career choice not suggested by the bozo career counsellers at the school.

I'm surprised that the Chippendale option was not presented to the eighth-grade boys.

Although they may not earn $250,000 per annum, I believe that that "career" pays more than fast-food or retail.

It is just a short step from recommending stripping as a career option to reminding both the eighth-grade girls, AND the eighth-grade boys that they are, to put it bluntly, "sitting on a goldmine". Prostitutes get paid in cash, so, barring an audit by the IRS get to keep most of their earnings, unlike regular workers. I'm surprised that the oldest profession was not part of the lectures on career choices.

What were the career counselling co-ordinaters at this school thinking??? Whew!

Edited January 17, 2005 by patricia

[Jazzmoose]

There's such a club in San Francisco. There were the inevitable clashes between workers and their self-management, worries about expenses & benefits, etc. (I don't know if they're still in business.)

It just so happens that someone who works there frequents my "other" home on the web (www.wheresgeorge.com) so I can tell you that it is still in business. I think it's called The Lucky Lady, but I'm going by memory there.

I haven't been in a strip club since I was 22; they were already depressing places to me at that age, I can't imagine what it would be like now...

[1ngram]

Of course its exploitation but then so is every job where some boss takes some of the value the workers have created as "profit" since profit is just legitimised theft.

As for strippers I used to know quite a few in London when I lived and worked there. A high percentage were or became lesbians, quite a few ended up whoring for a living, so depressed and cynical did they become, especially about men and almost all were on uppers to keep up the gruelling schedule they had. Their home/personal life was usually a mess and a fair number ended up on heroin to blot their lifestyle out.

[JSngry]

You say that like its a bad thing...

[maren]

A sociology survey/study done in the late 70s or early 80s found that a lot of strippers/exotic dancers had been physically abused by their fathers -- excessive beating as "discipline," NOT sexually abused -- whereas a history sexual abuse was more prevalent among prostitutes, compared to strippers. Of course, there's not a complete wall between those categories. But anecdotally, every single one of the women I personally knew who were strippers/go-go dancers had been beaten by their fathers -- they agreed with that study, that they had a very resentful, angry "pay to look, show me you want it, but you can't touch" motivation.

[Guest ariceffron]

ok speaking of which: i saw this amazing piece of pornographic cinema last nite called peaches n cream starring the one and only annette haven and it was SO funny- her pimp friend would sit in his pad meditating to big band music and then he would tell the girls-- listen to the sounds man the sounds will give u the answer.