The End Of Blood, Sweat, & Tears?

[Teasing the Korean]

Except that the song was written by David Clayton Thomas.

Sorry, I though he was in BS&T.

[GA Russell]

In 1967 I got an album on the Parrot (London) label by Alan Price called This Price is Right. This was Price's first US album after he left The Animals.

One of the songs was called Bet No One Ever Hurt So Bad by Randy Newman.

A few years later BS&T released Spinning Wheel. It's the same song with different lyrics.

[B. Clugston]

Quick couple of thoughts:

1 - I really like the first two Chicago albums and the first two BST albums, especially the first one by each.

2 - England had some great horn bands. My favorite was If, with Dick Morrissey and an excellent guitarist named Terry Smith. They made some fine albums. I also really liked another one, more obscure, called The Greatest Show On Earth.

3 - It was a wonderful time with jazz and rock and pop mixing together seeking something new. Columbia marketing Soft Machine III as a pop album was incredible in retrospect.

If was great. That lead singer had a great voice!

[A Lark Ascending]

Quick couple of thoughts:

1 - I really like the first two Chicago albums and the first two BST albums, especially the first one by each.

2 - England had some great horn bands. My favorite was If, with Dick Morrissey and an excellent guitarist named Terry Smith. They made some fine albums. I also really liked another one, more obscure, called The Greatest Show On Earth.

3 - It was a wonderful time with jazz and rock and pop mixing together seeking something new. Columbia marketing Soft Machine III as a pop album was incredible in retrospect.

I'd throw in the third Chicago album as a great record too. I've recently acquired the live Carnegie box and that is great fun too. What I've heard from thereafter doesn't impress.

I only knew BS&T at a distance from a couple of singles. I have a reissue LP of the second album which I like, even though I find Clayton Thomas' vocals somewhat chest-wiggy.

Agree very much with point 3. Throw in the left-field jazzers who turned up on the 2nd, 3rd and 4th King Crimson albums and you've one of the main reasons I drifted into jazz.

[Stereojack]

Except that the song was written by David Clayton Thomas.

Sorry, I though he was in BS&T.

Well, that was my point. His version may suck, but his is the original.

[kenny weir]

vocals somewhat chest-wiggy.

Context is everything, so I sorta know what you mean. I guess. But I'd like to know more about this interesting term.

[SGUD missile]

The only "old" horn bands that still sound up to par are EW&F and TofP ..

heard 'em both withing the last year ..and they BOTH burn just like the 70s were still here!!!

You've got a good point there ... the "later editions " of

BOTH T of P and EW&F hold up quite well to the originals. I've had the pleasure of hearing BOTH of them several times over the past few years and they always come on smokin!

BST and Chicago were never my favorites of the period. The

REAL killer band of the time was DREAMS ( w. both Breckers,

Barry Rogers, Don Grolnik, Billy Cobham, and ( i think )

Will Lee. ( I forget who the guitar guy was.)

Ten Wheel Drive wasn't bad either. :crazy:

[JSngry]

John Abercrombie, iirc.

[gmonahan]

Man, I was such a band geek when I was in high school. We worshiped at the shrine of BST. I remember when I first heard it thinking "God Bless the Child" was such a cool song. Had anyone else ever done that......?

gregmo

[Free For All]

Man, I was such a band geek when I was in high school. We worshiped at the shrine of BST. I remember when I first heard it thinking "God Bless the Child" was such a cool song. Had anyone else ever done that......?

gregmo

Definitely. As I said earlier in this thread, these horn bands were my transition to jazz. I played in a couple different horn bands in HS and we played a bunch of Chicago and BS&T as well as Crusaders, Tower of Power and EW&F. After that came the big bands, then JJ and Carl Fontana, etc. But I'll always have fond memories of those horn bands. Talking specifically about BS&T, I agree that they peaked quickly and that the shine came off, but even on the later records there usually were one or two great cuts. I remember a later record called "No Sweat" that had a couple great Dave Bargeron bone solos that I still like to listen to. It was the one with the cover pic of the band in a sauna- I heard that a similar scene in the first Blues Brothers movie (where they were in the sauna with Steve Lawrence) was a takeoff of that cover (and Lou Marini was in both!).

Speaking of 70s horns bands, anyone remember the short-lived but high energy fusion band "Matrix"? Weren't they based in Kansas?

[Guy Berger]

I guess "you had to be there". Though I enjoy some of Chicago and BST's early music, as a younger listener I find the in-your-face brassiness of these bands to be generally irritating. I'm no expert on the history of this music, but would guess they inherited the idea from the in-your-face brassiness of college-oriented jazz big bands, which I also have mixed feelings about.

[Free For All]

college-oriented jazz big bands, which I also have mixed feelings about.

How so?

[Lyin' Wolf]

Quick couple of thoughts:

1 - I really like the first two Chicago albums and the first two BST albums, especially the first one by each.

3 - It was a wonderful time with jazz and rock and pop mixing together seeking something new.

Put me solidly in this camp

At a time when I was exploring different styles of music - the sound and popularity of early BS&T and CTA helped push me toward the jazz camp. To me at the time - aged 10-13 when that stuff came out - they sounded bold, fresh, exciting. When I read that they were incorporating elements of jazz into their music it made me want to hear more jazz. In retrospect, those bands (among others - like the dreaded fusion groups) helped define who I am as a music listener and helped open me up to the entire genre of jazz - which I enjoy to this day. Nothing wrong with that.

I think most would agree that after their early albums, both CTA and BS&T moved into a more commercialized direction, but hey - you have to make a living. That BS&T continues to tour to this day falls under the same category I guess. Back in the day, it was fun and exciting music. I wouldn't pay to see them - but if they came to one of the local summer free concert series - I'd go.

[JSngry]

I guess "you had to be there".

Have you ever lived in a world where there were certain things (including people) that you were just not supposed to mingle with, much less swap spit, much less hooked up with, and then all of a sudden you could and then WHOAAA!!!!! ?

[Free For All]

college-oriented jazz big bands, which I also have mixed feelings about.

How so?

Up, still interested in a response, just out of curiosity.

[Guy Berger]

college-oriented jazz big bands, which I also have mixed feelings about.

How so?

When I listen to the 1966 Don Ellis, I hear plenty of interesting musical ideas mixed in with some relentlessly over-the-top and (to my ears) corny brass playing.

[Free For All]

college-oriented jazz big bands, which I also have mixed feelings about.

How so?

When I listen to the 1966 Don Ellis, I hear plenty of interesting musical ideas mixed in with some relentlessly over-the-top and (to my ears) corny brass playing.

So what's "corny"- the playing or the arrangements? What does that mean? Too loud? Out of tune? Is "corny" synonymous with "college"? I understand that you're not a big band fan, but I'm just trying to figure out your comments. There are many variables involved here- the quality of the writing, the level of proficiency of the players, the recording quality. I'm not sure I would like big band music either by listening to just the recording you mentioned. Also, where does the "college-oriented" part come in? You mean big bands who get players from college jazz programs, or are you expressing a general opinion about college jazz programs?

I think your comment was interesting, Guy, I'm just looking for a little clarification because it's a pretty sweeping generalization that I hear a lot.

[JSngry]

On ‎1‎/‎11‎/‎2005 at 7:46 PM, JSngry said:

http://www.rdrop.com/users/rickert/bst.html

 

and

 

http://www.davidclaytonthomas.com/news.html

 

Proof that beating a dead horse will eventually kill it again?

No, not even.

http://www.bloodsweatandtears.com/

They got gigs, not a buttload, but enough.

http://www.bloodsweatandtears.com/tour/

You gotta feed the band!

http://www.bloodsweatandtears.com/~blood/files/4213/9759/8063/BSTCatering2013.pdf

Who are these guys? THESE are these guys!

http://www.bloodsweatandtears.com/members1/

[felser]

Looks like we've come a ways from Larry Willis and Joe Henderson, let alone Al Kooper and Steve Katz.

[kh1958]

1 hour ago, JSngry said:

No, not even.

http://www.bloodsweatandtears.com/

They got gigs, not a buttload, but enough.

http://www.bloodsweatandtears.com/tour/

You gotta feed the band!

http://www.bloodsweatandtears.com/~blood/files/4213/9759/8063/BSTCatering2013.pdf

Who are these guys? THESE are these guys!

http://www.bloodsweatandtears.com/members1/

You had your chance, but too late now.

January

23   Charles W. Eiseman Theatre   Richardson,TX

 

[JSngry]

Wow. The Eiseman. That's a weird place in terms of bookings...same place where I almost went to see Doc Severensen a few years ago, all kinds of "second tier" events that still draw crowds and command not-always-cheap-yet-still-affordable ticket price, the kinds of things that give "suburban" a rightfully bad name, who knew? Would that have been history repeating itself, imitating itself, or mocking itself?

OTOH, it's a gig. Probably a gig that leads to further gigs (playing, clinics, endorsements, whatever). Nothing like the old days to be sure, but very few players these days can just work one band and make a living.

Having said that, it's probably a pure ghost band by now. I think once upon a time they tried getting players who could stretch the material, and maybe they still do, but...I'd go hear them if somebody treated me to the tickets.

But any of these ghost bands, be they big bands or 50s bands or 60s bands or 70s bands, however old they are, bands that used to have hits and no longer have any expectations or ambitions past playing nostalgia circuits just to make a living, I give props to the business chops it takes to keep that type of thing going, and I'm happy to see players with ongoing band gigs. That's getting to be a rarer and rarer option.

None of that has anything to do with music, of course, but other than being professional and getting/keeping a gig without drama, drugs, and/or death, none of this does.

[kh1958]

I haven't been to the Eiseman (so near yet so far), but I keep my hopes up that someday, somehow, I'll want to go there. 

[Chuck Nessa]

In 1969 I caught up with BS&T in Terre Haute Indiana - partially because Indiana U student Michael Brecker was a customer at the store I managed in Bloomington, but mostly because the store was owned by Columbia Records. Columbia had east, west and central pressing plants and the central one was in Terre Haute. Columbia gave me a handful of tickets for the gig and a hotel room. In the morning after the concert a tour of the pressing plant was arranged and when I arrived the band was there. All the members were grabbing lps and stuffing them in boxes. The plant manager looked at me and said something like "they think these are free records but every one will be deducted from their royalties".