Avant-Grease & Mixed-Meter Boogaloo: brainy stuff

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Any of Karl Denson's work with Fred Wesley. But particularly "Swing and be funky".

MG

[Spontooneous]

In a less overtly greasy way, "The Windup" on Keith Jarrett's "Belonging." Really.

[Kalo]

eee-YES!

[.:.impossible]

eee-YES!

eee-yow!

[Kalo]

So as not to answer my own question - Funky Donkey.

A-farkin'-men to to THAT!!

That first "Funky Donkey" album is EXACTLY the kind of thing I was thinking of when I started this thread.

I first read a review of that record in the late-'70s, by Francis Davis I believe, in Musician Magazine, and kept an eye out for it for years and years.

When it was finally reissued on Atavistic I snatched it up.

It lived up to and exceeded the expectations of that decade-plus period of anticipation.

I digs me some avant-groove...

[Shawn]

Nice topic idea, I'm sure I'll come up with some other suggestions...but in the interim I think this one qualifies. Stretches a good bit (especially on the opening track) and also features Andy Bey on a couple tracks.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Oh, and what about the MFin' MASTER? Pharoah Sanders!!!!

Our roots began in Africa!!!!! Yes, yes, yes, with Bernie Worrell.

And earlier, Pharoah Sanders Live - Theresa 116 with "You've got to have freedom" and "Blues for Santa Cruz" and "Pharomba". Hicks, piano, Booker, bass, Idris drums. Anyone here need funk lessons?

And don't forget those funky Nigerian-type things on "Rejoice!"

MG

[Kyo]

I know this is an old thread, but let me say that this is a great idea for a discussion! I love those

late 60s John Patton albums and I agree that the Pharoah solo stuff is similarly fascinating.

[AndrewHill]

This may not be a perfect fit but Hill's Grass Roots seems to get greasy, yet retains a level of intelligence to qualify it as 'brainy.'

[AndrewHill]

This is such a great thread...

With the recently released RVG of Kirk's Work (Prestige, 61), we might consider adding that album as a kind of predecessor to avant-grease. Admittedly, it falls in the early 60s commercial soul-jazz bag. But I don't think you can have Roland Kirk switching instruments mid-song, or playing multiple horns at once, without some idiosyncratic variation on the tradition. His humming/vocalizations during his flute solo on "Funk Underneath" are discussed in the liner notes in terms of "what appears to be a Kirk duet." In fact, this particular sound reminded me of the Big John Patton tracks from Understanding and Boogaloo where Harold Alexander plays flute. It may not be Larry Young circa 1967, but this is one of the most purely entertaining organ dates I have heard so far.

I just bought the RVG of this one last night. One thing for sure is that you can hear the seeds of 'We Free Kings' on this one. Something else that you don't see too often is a bassist with an organist. When McDuff sits out, I wonder how interesting it would've been if it would've been just Kirk and rhythm.

[freeform83]

Right now on eBay are three Larry Young LPs (Groove Street, Into Something, and Heaven on Earth) that, according to the description, come from a large collection of records previously owned by the rap group Digable Planets. If this is the case, I wonder if they aquired the albums for sampling or listening...

The Young that I am really waiting for is Contrasts -- Number One on my BN wish list.

[freeform83]

Speaking of Bernie Worrell, has anyone heard Bill Laswell's group Praxis? I may be veering off course here, but I have their first CD, Transmutation (Mutatis Mutandis), and it features all kinds of funk elements plus a long freeform organ freakout on the last (and best) track. I do find it gimmicky at times. The P Funk + metal + avant-garde formula can feel contrived. I don't know whether or not this was resolved on subsequent albums, nor have I heard much Worrell to use as a reference point.

Edited June 20, 2007 by freeform83

[Guest donald petersen]

maybe without buckethead it would have been ok.

that guy is a buzzkill for me.

he has that long cheesy metal ballad kind of thing at the end of one song too.

there is actually a music video...

but basically i would say laswell plus buckethead plus old man pfunks equals cheese but the first album does have some good moments.

actually in some way, buckethead reminds me of derek bailey because he's thrown into different situations and always does his same thing. except bailey was doing something original and interesting.

[Shawn]

This may not be a perfect fit but Hill's Grass Roots seems to get greasy, yet retains a level of intelligence to qualify it as 'brainy.'

Right on! Grass Roots deserves a good bit more credit than it usually gets. There's a special groove to that session(s).

[AndrewHill]

maybe without buckethead it would have been ok.

that guy is a buzzkill for me.

he has that long cheesy metal ballad kind of thing at the end of one song too.

there is actually a music video...

but basically i would say laswell plus buckethead plus old man pfunks equals cheese but the first album does have some good moments.

actually in some way, buckethead reminds me of derek bailey because he's thrown into different situations and always does his same thing. except bailey was doing something original and interesting.

I'll never forget seeing Buckethead with the 'newly reformed' Guns and Roses at the (I think) MTV music awards a couple of years ago. And I didn't know who this cat was with a KFC bucket on his head (and yes, it was a KFC bucket!) And I asked my wife if she knew who that was and when she told me his name, I lost it! I must've cracked up for a good half hour But when I reading through the Penguin Guide one day, his name appeared in there, I think with Bill Laswell. The guy does seem to be quite diverse.

[DMP]

The Don Pullen album on "Atlantic" (can't think of the title at the moment) - that first track is hard to beat. And Archie Shepp's "Kwanza."

[freeform83]

Has anyone heard the Brute Force album (Embryo, 70) with Sonny Sharrock, produced by Herbie Mann? I am looking for opinions on whether or not this would qualify or is recommended.

Same goes for Last Exit.

Edited June 20, 2007 by freeform83

[clifford_thornton]

Has anyone heard the Brute Force album (Embryo, 70) with Sonny Sharrock, produced by Herbie Mann? I am looking for opinions on whether or not this would qualify or is recommended.

I used to have that on vinyl and thought it was boring at the time. Though my tastes have changed in the ensuing years, I don't recall it ever making me get up and dance around the room.

[Guest donald petersen]

the brute force is less interesting than the label/musicians/cover would have you thinking...pass on it, imo.

i like the ted daniel album "tapestry". though that might be a bit too out for this thread. still...an interesting mellow electric free jazz-ish album.

[clifford_thornton]

The one on Sun? Don't have that, but I'd like to. The Ujaama is amazing, but certainly out of the realm of this thread.

[Alexander Hawkins]

I like the Ted Daniels a lot.

A couple more Shepps which might count on 'For Losers'.

On a slightly different tip, I guess, there's some great stuff on the newish Kalaparusha and the Light album on Delmark, as well as from 8 Bold Souls...

[Guest donald petersen]

well as far as harold alexander, no one mentioned "sunshine man", which can be found on CD and is a personal favorite. i like it better than the patton albums just because it is electric piano rather than organ and pretty purdie is always nice to hear.

[clifford_thornton]

Though they haven't been reissued on CD, and the LPs are rather - um - scarce, the Hans Dulfer Ritmo-Natural LPs totally fit the bill here.

Ditto his work with Soulbrass Inc., with Herbert Noord on B3.

Where's Atavistic UMS when you need 'em?

[ep1str0phy]

I haven't look at this thread in a while, but there's some discussion of this topic on there:

Free Funk

Oh--and in response to Clifford: Nation Time. It's Nation Time.

[ep1str0phy]

Oh yeah--Brute Force isn't that good, though Sonny is a bitch as always. And that Pullen album, I think, is Tomorrow's Promises. There's a long take on a "Freedom Jazz Dance"-ish track called "Big Alice". I sat in with a student ensemble this past spring--the line (mainly a sixteenth-note thing) was hell at the "proper" tempo and there was a lot of stumbling, but it was great fun and a blast in terms of ensemble work.

I'll mention again Dudu Pukwana's awesome solo work here. My favorites, In the Townships, Ubagile (Diamond Express), and Cosmics Chapter 90, are just drenched in South African freegrease--mbaqanga meets Booker T & the MGs meets BAG. Dudu's sax was about as rhythmic as you can get with a tempered instrument--harsh, pumping, and visceral, like a sub-Saharan Julius Hemphill. All the aformentioned albums have the usual, bad suspects in tow (Mongezi, Harry Miller, and Louis Moholo-Moholo on the first, adding later-Brotherhood of Breath bassist Ernest Mothle and guitarist Lucky Ranku on the second, Ranku and vocalist Pinise Saul appearing on the third).

Edited June 21, 2007 by ep1str0phy