Green Bay Moss

[Son-of-a-Weizen]

This whole Moss thing is a laugh. So many folks out there feigning outrage and playing this thing up on radio and in the papers.....& participating in the instant online polls (MSN) re: the proper punishment......blah, blah. All that clown does is pretend to moon some fans and these ninny sports announcers jaws drop to the ground and they start huffing & puffing about how decorum has been egregiously breached........meanwhile, the fans at home get to sit there watching these NFL games (or even golf!) with 8-year-old girls in the room who're treated to the Levitra and Cialis ads w/the voiceovers about 'ED' and stern warnings about the need to run like the wind to the doc's office if ya can't clobber it into submission with a golf club after 4-hours.

[Noj]

I agree, but to an extent.

It is my preference when a player avoids childish, choreographed celebrations in favor of acting like he's done it before--but that's just me. I also prefer it when players respect their opponent and respect the game--but that's just me. Some fans love what Moss and Owens and others do in celebration of a TD.

Defensive players have long memories, they're regular pachyderms. Remember when Michael Irvin got laid out unconscious? Those are the kind of hits that get a little extra emphasis for the big mouth end zone celebrators.

At the same time there were fans who cheered as Michael Irvin needed medical attention on the field--I wouldn't count myself among them, I don't want to see any player (no matter how obnoxious) get hurt.

[Dan Gould]

I'm with Noj - respect the game and respect your opponents. Terrell Owens is world class in one thing-being a jackass.

As far as Moss goes, he was, is, and always will be a punk and I hope his comeuppance comes very soon.

[DrJ]

I'm in Dan and Noj's camp on this one.

The only thing I'd add is that until the NFL (coaches and leadership) get really serious about cleaning up the league's image - by suspending such players and basically hounding and harrassing them until they either get the message or leave - this kind of crap will continue to happen. I wasn't "personally offended" by Moss' childish gesture, but it's just silly and stupid for a grown man to be doing, and it turns me off of the game, at least as much as the steroid scandal has done the same to me for baseball and players going into the stands has done for basketball.

Pro sports in the U.S. is becoming a total joke, basically it's a series of living comic books aimed at the lowest common denominator. I think a lot of other people feel the same way...lots of people I know still watch sports, but I have to say that very few seem to have the deep love of the games and more saliently the PLAYERS that they had in the past. This type of stuff is a major reason for that.

Anyway, the NFL should do itself a favor and start coming down really hard on all the ridiculous end zone celebrations, gestures at the crowd, etc. Maybe someday we'll once again see a guy score a fantastic touchdown and simply flip the ball to the ref while he trots off the field...which, btw, looks EVER so much cooler and hipper than watching a 250 lb guy in pads and helmet doing a dainty little hokey pokey.

PS - ED ads really have nothing to do with all this - yeah, those ads are stupid and offensive, but at least it's a real problem for many people and this is perhaps the only way they'll be encouraged to seek help. I'd prefer a classier approach too, but what the hell does that have to do with Randy Moss's moon (wait...I don't want to know!)

Edited January 11, 2005 by DrJ

[John Tapscott]

I was watching the game on TV and to be honest, I didn't even see what Moss did after the touchdown. From the camera amgle, you could hardly see it, and it was over in an instant. I was thinking about the touchdown and all of a sudden, the announcer starts going on about Moss' classless act (which it was, of course). But I kept wondering what he did.

The problem with these things is that they're not only classless, but they shift everyone's focus away from the real story of the weekend, which was Duante Culpepper's masterful performance. Peyton Manning gets the headlines, but didn't Culpepper have an even higher QB rating on the day? And in Favre's backyard, no less. When Duante's on his game, there are few better. I love watching him play QB. He's got it all.

[Son-of-a-Weizen]

PS - ED ads really have nothing to do with all this - yeah, those ads are stupid and offensive, but at least it's a real problem for many people and this is perhaps the only way they'll be encouraged to seek help. I'd prefer a classier approach too, but what the hell does that have to do with Randy Moss's moon (wait...I don't want to know!)

Sure, I'm in total agreement.....I suppose it just makes me roll eyes when I hear these announcers launch into their best shrill 'oh, my gosh..that's disgusting!' routine, while at the same time we're figuring out a way to momentarily distract a kids attention from the 'if your erection last longer than...' babble. As for the players ...I grew tired of their antics a few years ago which is why I now watch zero NBA games and less than a half-dozen NFL games.

[DrJ]

The problem with these things is that they're not only classless, but they shift everyone's focus away from the real story of the weekend, which was Duante Culpepper's masterful performance.

John, exactly my point. The classy guys like Culpepper, and the great stuff they do, are overshadowed by this crap, not only in the papers and in the media but on the field.

However, I must say, part of the QBs role should be to lead, and Daunte missed a great opportunity to focus attention back on himself and the rest of the team (where it belonged) and send a strong message to Moss. Honestly, I would love to have seen Culpepper just walk over and smack Moss upside the head on national TV after his little gesture for a) being an idiot and b) showing up his actual playing prowess with his childishness.

Sometimes I really miss the days of "old school" quarterbacks and coaches who would have put so much hurt and peer pressure on guys like Moss they'd be embarrassed to even THINK about doing that kind of stuff.

As for the players ...I grew tired of their antics a few years ago which is why I now watch zero NBA games and less than a half-dozen NFL games.

That's my point too - I watched 15 minutes of 1 (one) NFL playoff game this weekend, and within that 15 minutes, this is what I saw. You don't have to look long and hard (and in light of the ED discussion, you CAN take that as a double entendre) to find this type of stuff...it's endemic. It IS the NFL.

Edited January 11, 2005 by DrJ

[Soulstation1]

it is a tradition in green bay for the fans to moon the vistors' bus after a packers win.

forget about the mooning

what about the super freaks' FRO!!!!!!!!!

big ben needzzz to get to work

ss1

[scottb]

To me, it seems the announcers and the media in general have blown this thing WAY out of proportion. He didn't actually moon anyone!

I heard about the fans'tradition of mooning the visiting team on the way out as well. In light of that, it looks like Moss was just having a little fun with the crowd.

Yes these guys are professionals, yes they get millions of dollars, but let's face it. It's a GAME, games are FUN, if your having FUN you may want to express that with a CELEBRATION. Watch a group of 10yr olds play anything: basketball, football, video games, checkers - it doesn't matter, there will be taunting, smack talking, immature dances / gestures. It's part of the fun.

Sports aren't just for the sake of the game, it's entertainment. These guys are entertaining. That's why a player can be worth millions to his team and sponsers.

I don't see anything wrong with a little end zone celebration, even to the point of Joe Horn pulling out his cellphone to call his mom. Obviously there are limits and inappropriate gestures and vulgar language have no place. I'm not even sure Moss' gesture was over that limit in my mind. He didn't actually moon anyone!

[Dan Gould]

You're getting cause and effect mixed up, Scott.

The taunting, etc., that you are applauding kids for happens only because its what they see their "heroes" do.

[Man with the Golden Arm]

When Duante's on his game, there are few better. I love watching him play QB. He's got it all.

and he's got this guy's number?

[scottb]

No, we used do all that and more down at the corner lot and this was in the day when the only endzone dancer was Billy "Whiteshoes" Johnson and the extent of celebration was spinning the football like a top.

[connoisseur series500]

with 8-year-old girls in the room who're treated to the Levitra and Cialis ads w/the voiceovers about 'ED' and stern warnings about the need to run like the wind to the doc's office if ya can't clobber it into submission with a golf club after 4-hours.

Funny stuff.

I basically agree with Weizy. I see nothing wrong with self-expression in football. At the same time, I do recognize that the NFL is so damned enjoyable because the league does what it can to contain the "punk elements." It's no NBA for sure. There's a strictness and sense of decorum in the NFL, which the NBA does not have.

[PHILLYQ]

I've gotten to the point of such disgust with the celebrations(Why are you doing a dance when making a tackle while your team is down 21 with three minutes left?!) that I turn away from the tube or switch channels right after a TD. I loved Barry Sanders- he would rip off an 80 yard run, fake 8 guys out of their shoes, then calmly toss the ball to the official. So what would you appreciate? Not some dance, but the electrifying run for the touchdown. Whoever said 'Act like you've been there before' had it right.

In basketball, sometimes a guy is so caught up in celebrating his monster dunk(which is worth two points, same as a layup) that he doesn't get back on defenseand costs his team a basket- dunk negated!

Or how about these baseball players who stand there and admire what they hit(Barry Bonds & others), then realize that it didn't clear the wall and get a very long single when they might have had a triple if they had hustled?

I may be an old bag and somewhat old-fashioned, but I think trash talking is degrading both for the target and the talker. Whatever happened to letting your skill speak for itself? Vent finished, return to normal mode.

[PHILLYQ]

Terrell Owens is world class in one thing-being a jackass.

The saddest thing about Owens is that he is a great wideout, but people will remember him more for his foolish antics than his ability.

[Sahara Blue Orchestra]

I like the old school Bud Grant approach of act like you've been there before, so put me in the camp of wishing he would have just tossed the ball to the ref and hugged his teammates.

But I do think the announcers during the game, and the FOX crew in the studio after the game -- as well as the ESPN Berman and Jackson duo -- were ridiculous in their hand-wringing and protestations of outrage. You would have thought it was your grandma's church ladies stumbling into a brothel for all their act of being shocked, shocked, shocked. A fake moon shot is tame compared to the regular network fare on FOX, to say nothing of the football cheerleaders and the tv ads that run during the game.

And yeah trying to distract your kids when they start in on another Levitra ad -- now that is a heck of a lot harder than explaining why some guy pretended to moon some fans, but golly-gee Chris Berman is all worried about disgracing the frozen tundra of Lambeau field.

Of course he spent so much time talking about the moon over lambeau that he didn't have time to talk about how golden-boy Farve stunk up the joint, and how he cost his team big time when he made that sidearm flip right before half -- and then laughed about it. Hell Berman even made that bone-head play one of his plays of the day -- not calling him on it, but because it just showed how much Bret Farve loves the game.

Oh well, at the games this weekend should be entertaining.

[JSngry]

I like the old school Bud Grant approach of act like you've been there before, so put me in the camp of wishing he would have just tossed the ball to the ref and hugged his teammates.

But I do think the announcers during the game, and the FOX crew in the studio after the game -- as well as the ESPN Berman and Jackson duo -- were ridiculous in their hand-wringing and protestations of outrage.

Pretty much my sentiments as well, although a I do enjoy a little "showmanship" if it's creative, fun, and not mocking. Moss gets 2 out of 3 - close, but no cigar.

[DrJ]

Yeah, the idea that you have to prance around like an idiot to add some life and color to games that got along just fine (in fact better) without this type of thing for years is just stupid. Boy, do I miss the old days...

One thing in defense of the announcers - had somebody other than Moss done this, I'm sure it would have been less commented upon. You can't take this one incident out of context - the guy just did something equally stupid a week before, and in fact has done silly things MANY times in the past. So it's just part of a pattern, and I think they were genuinely flabbergasted that, after even some of his own teammates were coming down on him in the press the week before, he still just couldn't help himself. Honestly, I didn't feel in that light they blew it out of proportion in the least.

Being a Niners fan and having to grit my teeth through the Terrell Owens years, I know whereof I speak.