Discwasher D4 Fluid - Anybody Know What It Is?

[Kevin Bresnahan]

I am just starting to get back into LPs. I don't know why, I guess I just got sick of waiting for some labels to reissue certain titles. Anyway, I'm blowing the dust off of some of my old LP paraphenalia and I find my Discwasher D4 fluid is low. I did a lot of experimenting back in the day and I know I like the sound of LPs after treatment than without. I'll be needing more.

It appears that D4 fluid is still around... in dinky little 1.25 ounce containers! I used the big bottles back in the day but they don't seem to be making them.

I remember years ago that someone said that D4 fluid was simply de-ionized water. Does anyone know?

I can't believe that they are getting $70 for a Zerostat! I used one of those for years but it broke. I don't think it's worth $70... yeah, it eliminated a few pops, but not that many.

Any help on either big bottles of D4 (stashed in some local hi fi shop's back room maybe?) or else a source for jugs of de-ionized water?

Later,

Kevin

[Brandon Burke]

That's the problem with the Discwasher solution. They don't tell you what's in it. I understand, of course, that they have an interest in keeping this information to themselves but I don't feel comfortable cleaning my LPs--much less those of the institutions I work for!--with a (quite literally) unknown substance.

There's no shortage of threads on this issue at the ARSClist archives page. I'd check there.

[sidewinder]

My 1978 vintage Zerostat is still going strong. I think it cost about £5 at the time !

[Quincy]

A Usenet post in net.audio from October 29, 1984 gives the answer as to what was in the old D3 fluid. Don't know what has changed, but if you are looking to set up a lab the post below might give you a headstart.

> A while (> 2 years) back, Science magazine (a British mag) published

>        the formula for Discwasher D3 fluid.  It has a British patent and they

>        put it in to show that it's not made of a lot of things.  I have the

>        original article somewhere, and I will find it, but from memory, here's

>        the recipe:  97% distilled water, sodium azide (to kill bacteria in the

>        groves), ethyline glycol (the cleaner), and a surficant (to reduce

>        surface tension).  The article had the percent by weight ratios and a

>        few surficants that are preferred.

Lucky me, I was given a bottle of D4 when a friend moved. I have another that's probably 25 years old. I have 3 bottles of the stylus cleaner, but only one is full.

[Quincy]

My 1978 vintage Zerostat is still going strong. I think it cost about £5 at the time !

Mine is just a couple of years newer than yours, and I think I payed a whoppin' $10.

Man oh man, in the wrong hands it was a painful weapon!

I finally learned to hide it when some of my more degenerate friends came over.

[Bill Fenohr]

Depending how deep you are going to get into vinyl, you might consider one of the record cleaning machines on the market. Its a heafty outlay in cash, but really does the job.

I have a Nitty Gritty 1.5 and would not trade it for anything.

I still use my Discwasher, but only to run over the record before i put it through the Nitty Gritty.

As far as pops go, if its not a scratch, you can sometimes get them out by using a baby hair brush which will loosen whatever is embedded in the groove.

[Kevin Bresnahan]

Depending how deep you are going to get into vinyl, you might consider one of the record cleaning machines on the market. Its a heafty outlay in cash, but really does the job.

I have a Nitty Gritty 1.5 and would not trade it for anything.

I still use my Discwasher, but only to run over the record before i put it through the Nitty Gritty.

As far as pops go, if its not a scratch, you can sometimes get them out by using a baby hair brush which will loosen whatever is embedded in the groove.

Nah, Bill, I already looked into a cleaner. Far too much money for the useage I'm gonna give it. I think I'll just stick to the Discwasher.

I may look into a used Zerostat though. Any of you guys got one you want to sell or trade your old one for some CDs from my trade pile?

As for other brushes and cleaners, I remember going through a phase where I investigated about 5 or 6 different brushes/cleaners and the Discwasher was the best to my ears.

Later,

Kevin

Edited January 10, 2005 by Kevin Bresnahan

[skeith]

Kevin

I don't have a Zerostat but have something called the Hunt EDA Mark 6 Brush (Carbon Fibre/Velvet Pad Brush) made in England. Does not use any liquid. It was popular for a bit in the 90's and I have hardly used it. If you are interested let me know.

[Brandon Burke]

Always heard that 99+% distilled water with just a few drops of isopropyl alcohol

does a great job without leaving residue in the grooves.

You're always going to hear arguments against using alcohol of any sort. And rightfully so, I think. For years I used a relatively weak [90% ISO] + [distilled water] solution and had good luck with it home. I used more than a "just few drops" of ISO, however. Something closer to 10-15% of the solution.

[GregK]

> A while (> 2 years) back, Science magazine (a British mag) published

>        the formula for Discwasher D3 fluid.  It has a British patent and they

>        put it in to show that it's not made of a lot of things.  I have the

>        original article somewhere, and I will find it, but from memory, here's

>        the recipe:  97% distilled water, sodium azide (to kill bacteria in the

>        groves), ethyline glycol (the cleaner), and a surficant (to reduce

>        surface tension).  The article had the percent by weight ratios and a

>        few surficants that are preferred.

Lucky me, I was given a bottle of D4 when a friend moved. I have another that's probably 25 years old. I have 3 bottles of the stylus cleaner, but only one is full.

I'll make this at work tommorow-although I think all you really need is ethylene glycol and water. Sodium azide in high concentrations can be rather nasty though, producing a toxic gas. I think it's used in airbags in cars

[Kevin Bresnahan]

Over on the Vinyl Asylum (http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=...her+d4&session=), someone posted that there is a Discwasher patent on file that calls out this mixture:

Sodium Azide = 0.004%

Surfactant (most likely Triton X-114) = 0.025%

Propylene Glycol = 0.01% to 0.075% (probably closer to the high end)

IPA = Won't hurt to run the full 5%

Distilled Water = quantity sufficient to add up to 100%

Where IPA = Isopropyl Alcohol

BTW, I should have searched this archive first... apparently, I'm not the only one looking for big containers of this stuff!

Later,

Kevin

[Quincy]

>    A while (> 2 years) back, Science magazine (a British mag) published

>        the formula for Discwasher D3 fluid.  It has a British patent and they

>        put it in to show that it's not made of a lot of things.  I have the

>        original article somewhere, and I will find it, but from memory, here's

>        the recipe:  97% distilled water, sodium azide (to kill bacteria in the

>        groves), ethyline glycol (the cleaner), and a surficant (to reduce

>        surface tension).  The article had the percent by weight ratios and a

>        few surficants that are preferred.

Lucky me, I was given a bottle of D4 when a friend moved. I have another that's probably 25 years old. I have 3 bottles of the stylus cleaner, but only one is full.

I'll make this at work tommorow-although I think all you really need is ethylene glycol and water. Sodium azide in high concentrations can be rather nasty though, producing a toxic gas. I think it's used in airbags in cars

After reading the CDC site concerning fun facts about sodium azide it makes me wonder if it was taken out for the new & improved D4. Though I know a wee bit of toxic stuff sometimes doesn't kill ya.

Dig up that British issue of Science from '52 (or earlier) before you play Mr. Wizard!

[Quincy]

I may look into a used Zerostat though. Any of you guys got one you want to sell or trade your old one for some CDs from my trade pile?

Sorry, I need mine for protection in case of a home intruder.

"OK, I'll leave. Please, just don't shock me!"

[Brandon Burke]

LC has taken their LP cleaning solution off-line (for revision) but I seem to remember it containing Triton XL-80N which, to the best of my knowledge, is at least somewhat toxic. So any of you who use the (old) LC solution might want consider either changing to something else for the time being or....I dunno....investing in a fume hood.

[Kevin Bresnahan]

LC has taken their LP cleaning solution off-line (for revision) but I seem to remember it containing Triton XL-80N which, to the best of my knowledge, is at least somewhat toxic. So any of you who use the (old) LC solution might want consider either changing to something else for the time being or....I dunno....investing in a fume hood.

Jeez, with all this talk of nasty chemicals, maybe I should look into a less toxic cleaning solution. I have to say, I never thought that D4 fluid smelled all that bad. In fact, it doesn't smell at all.

I wonder if the Disc Doctor cleaning stuff is any better?

Kevin

[GregK]

the level of chemicals in all of these solutions is really small. Nothing to worry about-although ethylene glycol is antifreeze....

[billyboy]

A couple of years ago, I dug out my big bottle of D4 from over 20 years ago, a little less than half full. I looked inside and there was quite of bit of black sediment in the bottle. I don't know what it is, but you might want to take a peek in your bottles if you haven't already.

[ralphie_boy]

Is there a difference between the D4 solution and the current fluid that Disc Doctor sells?

[Quincy]

A couple of years ago, I dug out my big bottle of D4 from over 20 years ago, a little less than half full. I looked inside and there was quite of bit of black sediment in the bottle. I don't know what it is, but you might want to take a peek in your bottles if you haven't already.

Ew, thanks for the tip. One bottle is clear as can be, the other looks like there are small flakes of tea leaves in it.